The Prospective Senshi (Chapter 10 - Epilogue)

[Crescent Pulsar R]

I still really dislike the whole thing with forcing Ranma to meet the Senshi and Ranma's inability to connect the dots to that.

Which dots to what?

You should be more overt about how Gaea doesn't give a damn what Ranma or anyone else that she likes to play with. Serenity being discrete about it is fine but I would think Usagi could summarize it as Gaea being a bitch.

It's not so much that she doesn't give a damn, but it becomes more clear what she's doing later.

Usagi has already suggested some misgivings about Gaea. It's only suggested due to the presence of her mother, and what she said. There will come an opportunity for her to express how she feels about Gaea's behavior.

The thing with Ranma "crossdressing" is... fine. Nabiki knowing about it is a fairly wretched cliche. Her motivation is also too long term. Or whatever her motivation is. Being someone's friend under conditions doesn't exactly seem like the great thing that Ranma agrees to be for some reason. I think it would be better for Nabiki to not be trying to blackmail Ranma into being a friend. But to interject some humor, have her try to be friendly and fail.

Well, Nabiki is trying to win him over without being too obvious about what she gets out of it, and he'd be more likely to shy away if she just up and decided to be nice to him instead of using a plan in the framework of "business as usual." The "devil you know," I suppose. It's what he's familiar with, and probably expects, so it's a lot easier to accept than if Nabiki were simply acting nice. Which would also be compounded by his past experience with a "nice" Nabiki, and she'd end up with a "crying wolf" situation: he wouldn't believe her. I should probably expound some of that in the story...

As for the girl clothing, I'm going to think some more on how I feel on why I find Ranma's reasoning behind it bad. Him having two sets of clothes isn't an issue, since he clearly does in canon.

He doesn't seem to have a problem contradicting how much of a man he wants everyone to think he is, not only with some of the things that he does but the ease/unconcern that he often exercises when he does them. There's an obvious disconnect somewhere, and I simply point toward something that could explain it. It's unlikely that Takahashi would suggest such a thing, but a different context means different rules. Although his reasoning is a bit shadowed by a part that he didn't care to mention.

My reasoning is the main character of the series has on occasion been taken out by her. True this is usually when he's not actively defending against her attacks but on the few occasions Ranma has fought her she at least holds her own for a few minutes.

I think the simple way to put this to rest is to point out that Kodachi was able to knock a coin out of Hinako's hand with her ribbon (in the manga, when they're in the gym; don't know about the anime). It wasn't a surprise attack, but the winning of a draw. Basically, given enough warning, anyone of at least Kodachi's ability will be fast enough to attack her first, and Hinako has nothing going for her without something to draw energy with, or when she has no energy to return.

Yet that may well be the thought process of the 'new' Shampoo, Kodachi, or possibly even Akane in this situation. A little more background on Hestia's competition would help clear that up a little. I mean was Ukyou in the past a little kinder or less likely to maim and harm innocents as the others have proven that is a very small concern. It's also a matter of how much their past lives are affecting their current ones. That is one of the things that I'm reffering to as stereotypical. You a little bit more then half the time have a pretty rapid personality change when a character remembers their past life. You're kind of falling into that trap while previously you were doing a more interesting pick and choose mentality where the better aspects of Ranma were merging with Hestia to create a new unique whole. But the previous interaction from the previously introduced princesses shows a bit more of an overwriting that is starting to make it's way into Ranma. If you want to make that differentiation clearer one way or another further showcasing the effects of others affected is a good way of doing so.

Well, they're generally the same as they were before, tempered in some ways by their current incarnations, while exacerbating other things. Since the story isn't focused on them, I wanted to keep things simple as far as they're concerned. It's the opposite for Ranma, who is otherwise juggling between himself and Hestia when he isn't taking advantage of either of their traits.

Entire story no. But a signfigant chunk I'd say there are a ton that follow along that vector. Stories where Ranma can become a sailor senshi but rejects it for an actual good reason other then 'don't want to be a girl' are to my knowledge non-existent, and that is what I thought we were heading towards. That's why I was so excited by this story thought it was quite original in that. I honestly thought you'd tease a fukufic and not deliver which would really be kind of brilliant. I've seen that done maybe twice and all of those were far shorter and less developed so I thought this could've been really interesting with an exploration of that. Yes, you have done a lot to explore the psychology and you're doing some interesting stuff with the gender issues but the end result feels a little to fixed now while before I was left to wonder. If you had had Ranma get into the fuku I would've loved the story to develop so that the whole time you're thinking Ranma is out of it and the senshi lamenting the other candidates but Ranma is on the sidelines and still possible for whatever reason. Leaving people guessing would've been a bit more rewarding really. Now, it's almost just gravy because we are entirely certain that Ranma's going to end up in the outfit unless something unexpectedly dark happens, but that seems radically unlikely so hence again my invocation of the word 'stereotypical.' Don't take that to mean I'm not interested in reading what you're putting out I am, but I would've graded the story A++ rather then a solid B+ which is what it seems to be reaching for now.

Well, it shouldn't be so surprising that it's inevitable, since I introduced this story as one that would become a fukufic. I thought about making it a "surprise," but I felt that what I was really aiming toward wouldn't have benefited from it. Some people might be left thinking where it will go with what comes next, though only for those who will read it at FF.net, or my site, without seeing this topic prior to doing so. ;p

Rest assured that it's not a "I don't want to be a girl" story. You can throw gender completely out of the window, aside from it being just another thing that Ranma has to contend with. This is a character development story, and I'm kind of working on a theme that showcases a big part of Ranma 1/2's story. It'll become more apparent what it is once things come to a head.

This is a valid argument coming from a canon Ranma but this no longer works for your story. You've just had Nabiki cursed by Akane and that surprised the hell out of her. She knows that Ranma has also changed and obviously knows enough magic to remove a curse and Akane has threatened her as well as Ranma insinuating that she could be at risk. Both of those should lead her to reconsider her knowledge of the players around Nerima and make her take a more conciliatory approach not this risky a one. Again if the curse had never happened to her I'd have no problems with this but it did and Nabiki knows that Ranma is 'different'.

She has enough reason to believe that Ranma hasn't changed so much as to be a concern. He did heal her, hasn't made any threats, tried to warn her of further involvement because of the others, and doesn't have to protect the same thing that the others are trying to keep a secret.

Hmm...Well technically speaking the other princesses are the antagonists already anyway so I guess this works. More of a character study then? Interesting don't see it very often with these two stories source material especially not with anything in regards to how long this is going. I do wonder then though how much longer you plan on this going because I can see it starting to drag if you go more then 7 or 8 more chapters.

The next update should be the last one. Depending on some of the particulars that I'm working with, that means it's either going to be two chapters and an epilogue, or three and an epilogue.

[LawOhki]

Which dots to what?

Didn't really phrase that right but should not Ranma be more suspicious of Phoebe and the senshi? I may have to reread it but didn't they want Hestia? There whole reaction seems like "Oh you got reincarnated too? YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!"

Also the part about Ranma explaining the details of his life is very close to the usual cliche of him explaining his entire life story to people he just met and they side with him on how horrible everyone from Nerima is.

[Crescent Pulsar R]

What would make him suspicious? Hestia's experience with Phoebe gave him no reason to think that a trip to a Shinto shrine would include an encounter with the sailor senshi. And then there's that part of Ranma that often leads him into going somewhere, or doing this or that, when he either doesn't have all of the details (when Nabiki tells him that Kuno wants to meet him, who wants to give the stuffed animal to the pig-tailed girl), consider circumstantial details (Ryoga wanting the Japanese nanniichuan for himself, which is why he tried to knock Ranma out with the statue), or even when he suspects that something is up (Mousse and Ryoga wanting to tag along after Ranma's curse is locked by Herb).

While they had preferred Hestia to the others, they didn't know what kind of person she now was, and the conversation went into a direction where making a request to become a candidate would have been out of place, considering that he also -- like Hestia -- didn't want to be one. Had Ranma only said that he didn't want to be a candidate and tried to leave it at that, some of the girls probably would have tried to change his mind, rather than remain silent on the matter.

Even Ranma eventually has to explain things relevant to a given situation, and that's what he did. That any of it is a part of his life is coincidental and ultimately unavoidable. The difference is why he has to do it at all. He didn't do it for sympathy or help, which is why he never told them where his fear of cats came from, and left out the fact that he has more than one fiancee and a contract with his mother that could result in his death if he doesn't meet what it demands of him. He's been known to show someone his curse to get out of something before (getting Sentaro (martial arts tea ceremony guy) to change his mind about marrying him), and that's what he did here, to illustrate that he was a guy and didn't want to be a candidate to become a sailor senshi (because they're girls). It also helped him to explain the circumstances with the four candidates, which he presented as another reason for why he didn't want to be a candidate, and why they shouldn't ask him to be one. In the end, I thought I did a good job with it, even without considering that he's no longer the Ranma from the (manga) canon story.

[Pale Wolf]

This is a bit overly convenient. It makes sense I suppose but you say that with lack of disguise field and lack of any other magical protection against loss of identity...It's kind of amazing and beyond belief now that the Senshi's enemies then never discovered who they were. At least make it so that Cologne had to use a magical artifact to do this, or did it purely psychologically/with eavesdropping. Either of those would be a lot more plausible.

Honestly, I dunno.

I mean, even if Jadeite had the basic ability to read someone's personality through their aura... so what? He's not gonna be able to tell that there was a personality shift in someone he never met before.

Besides, the guy was outta the loop for ten thousand years. Magic is allowed to march on with time.

This is a valid argument coming from a canon Ranma but this no longer works for your story. You've just had Nabiki cursed by Akane and that surprised the hell out of her. She knows that Ranma has also changed and obviously knows enough magic to remove a curse and Akane has threatened her as well as Ranma insinuating that she could be at risk. Both of those should lead her to reconsider her knowledge of the players around Nerima and make her take a more conciliatory approach not this risky a one. Again if the curse had never happened to her I'd have no problems with this but it did and Nabiki knows that Ranma is 'different'.

In fairness... Nabiki is really quite unintelligent. She's already filed Ranma under 'dumb jock, not a threat' and is gonna need more evidence than a disconcerting conversation to really take it to heart. (Ie, she's a character in Ranma 1/2)

Besides, it's called Crystal Tokyo, not Crystal World (if you get what I mean), which leaves some room for how things develop.

Someone tell Usagi she's being too slow. Give it another decade, and the Russians will finish Crystal Island ahead of her.

I still really dislike the whole thing with forcing Ranma to meet the Senshi and Ranma's inability to connect the dots to that.

Well, it should probably be highlighted that Ranma knows it was obviously a setup (what with the cats forcing her to stay...), but given how the first thing Usagi said was 'Uh, okay, that's bullshit, if you wanna go, go', it would be fair to assume that the Senshi weren't kept in the loop.



Mm. I remember getting a mild bleh feeling from the latest writing, but it was like three days ago and I forgot why. Lemme glance through and see if I remember.

... I think overall it's the huge 'Destiny, screw all your plans, the rock will have its way' vibe. (There's also Serenity taking any place whatsoever in an issue related to the governing of a nation, Earth, that never accepted her rule, but let's bypass that one for now)

It sort of puts lie to the title as a 'prospective' senshi. It's less about how Ranma might eventually get around to agreeing to become a senshi, the way it looked for the first seven chapters and I think most of your readers were looking forward to, and turns it into 'you are going to be a senshi, now fucking deal'.

It's not so much surprise (you did announce right at the start that Ranma was gonna end up a senshi) as it is... we didn't know how it was gonna happen. Watching the ride get around to that point was the fun part. And now we know how it's gonna happen: 'Destiny, lol'. Turns it from a story about people acting, into a story about how people react to events they have no choice over.

It does seem worth noting, though, that Ranma and Hestia actually appear to have the same view on gender. Which is to say 'What the fuck is this shit? There's no need for this damn box'.

[Crescent Pulsar R]

Hm? The definition still fits. Someone is likely or expected to become a senshi -- whether it's decided by choice or by force doesn't matter. The thing is, my intention, even though everyone here definitely knew that Ranma would be the one to become the new senshi, is almost exactly as you've observed. I'm sure that the lead-on-that-wasn't (which is where the "almost" comes in) is a letdown, but you've got to consider how many things Ranma has working against him, without and within himself, which would make resolution in any way, without using force, less improbable and more impossible. I figured it would be apparent enough that I wouldn't need to say anything about it...

In reality, you've all been reading a "destiny" the entire time. I mean, I said it'd be a fukufic, and with how many reasons and complications continued to get in the way... Although it's probably not the kind of "destiny" that you're thinking of. I prefer to separate the magical and spiritual connotations from what is essentially the equivalent of a father wanting to raise his son to take over his enterprise, but that's semantics for ya. Either way, there are a lot of things that Ranma has no control over in Ranma 1/2, of which he has no choice but to react to, so this sort of thing really shouldn't be a surprise.

When you get down to it, though, there's still the how and the why of it, and there's still one turn left before the story reaches its climax. Unfortunately, it probably won't have much affect on you psychics. ;p

(Well, I guess I've taken a long enough break... Time to get back to writing. Weeee~)

[Pale Wolf]

Well... the 'how' is made pretty plain. Earth says so, and will make it happen when it feels like it can do the most emotional damage to the people involved. The only 'how' left is 'how Ranma deals with it'.

And the 'why' is, as far as we care, because Earth is a bitch. (Ranma: "They say we're killing Mother Nature? I say keep going!")

If 'destiny says' rather than choosing to do it is what you wanted to write, I'll say no more. Simply wasn't what I wanted to read.

[Wyrd]

A possible way to reword it that makes it seem less like the Earth is forcing the issue is for Serenity to tell Usagi that the Earth had looked at the candidates and the only one it was considering, at all, was Ranma. She could also note that she wasn't responsible for Hestia's reincarnation; since Hestia had removed herself from consideration Serenity only brought forward the contestants with the hope that a different life might lead to more acceptable character. The Earth itself arranged for Hestia because she was the only one it likes and is willing to wait a little while for her to come to her senses. A 'little while' in the perspective of a planet could be measured in millenia, giving Ranma more time to come to terms with it.

Seeing more of the good the modern Senshi do and knowing that, at worst, becoming Sailor Earth at least keeps that power out of the hands of those who would most certainly abuse it could help Ranma reconcile his conflicting emotions enough to accept the role.

[Crescent Pulsar R]

Ah-ha! Someone has considered the idea of Gaea's perception of time. Good.

The one thing to keep in mind is this:

"But don't think too badly of her: we all have our own ways of showing love, teaching lessons and doling out punishments, and she is no different."

I shouldn't have to say it, but what she wants is no different than what a parent would want of their child. That's why I don't understand where the "bitch" comes from (aside from what she plans to do to the candidates, of course), because what's said there applies to that as well. Hmmmm... Actually, maybe if I added a "to teach them a lesson," or something to that effect, to the part where Serenity mentions what Gaea has planned for them...

I prefer giving a lot of information in bits and pieces, subtly or with hints, rather than be garish or take info dumps, where everything is laid out far before the information becomes relevant. Not coincidentally, a lot of things are tying into the final chapter, where everything should make sense. If not, then I goofed. *I rub the back of my head*

Depending on how this turns out, perhaps I should write completed stories before posting them for C&C, since that probably suits my writing style better. And my style doesn't seem to click with most of the people that have made comments, when I post installments, besides.

@Pale Wolf:

It's probably because I'm the one behind the story, so I know it's not so one-dimensional. While it goes without saying that I don't expect to write a good story, if you sum it up with simple addition, especially in regard to (what I see as) minor technical points, you're torching the fields before harvest. Which is fine, since everyone has their own tastes. Of course, since I keep hearing that Gaea is a bitch, when she hasn't done anything yet, perhaps I should assume that what's being digesting is a result of the addition of one's own seasoning.

Well, perhaps it would be best to see the story to the end, since I haven't seen anyone give comments that would indicate that they have an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish. Aside from my meager attempt at making a decent story, of course.

[Wyrd]

The way you word the scene, it really does sound like Gaea's being a bitch, or is very childish. What I was suggesting was an alternative way of doing things, not the impression I got from the story. Regardless of what you intended, the general response seems to indicate that you did not convey what you meant to convey.

Then again, isn't that the point of going through here in the first place?

[LawOhki]

What would make him suspicious? Hestia's experience with Phoebe gave him no reason to think that a trip to a Shinto shrine would include an encounter with the sailor senshi.

...

While they had preferred Hestia to the others, they didn't know what kind of person she now was, and the conversation went into a direction where making a request to become a candidate would have been out of place, considering that he also -- like Hestia -- didn't want to be one. Had Ranma only said that he didn't want to be a candidate and tried to leave it at that, some of the girls probably would have tried to change his mind, rather than remain silent on the matter.

Right, it's after showing up and being confronted with the senshi, who are super warm and accepting. The conversation starts very much with the senshi coming from a position that Hestia is the same but with a name change.

Ranma has already outright told Phoebe that he's not interested. It's very accommodating of him not to be out of their as quick as possible when it's clearly a plot to get him interested. (On top of the ending when he points out how emotionally devastating it is just to be around them.) It's certainly not out of the question that the senshi are in on it. Phoebe and the other two are the mean ol moon cats trying to be a brute force and then the senshi sweep in to catch Ranma in an compromised situation. Good moon princess bad moon cat.

Even Ranma eventually has to explain things relevant to a given situation, and that's what he did. That any of it is a part of his life is coincidental and ultimately unavoidable. The difference is why he has to do it at all. He didn't do it for sympathy or help, which is why he never told them where his fear of cats came from, and left out the fact that he has more than one fiancee and a contract with his mother that could result in his death if he doesn't meet what it demands of him. He's been known to show someone his curse to get out of something before (getting Sentaro (martial arts tea ceremony guy) to change his mind about marrying him), and that's what he did here, to illustrate that he was a guy and didn't want to be a candidate to become a sailor senshi (because they're girls). It also helped him to explain the circumstances with the four candidates, which he presented as another reason for why he didn't want to be a candidate, and why they shouldn't ask him to be one. In the end, I thought I did a good job with it, even without considering that he's no longer the Ranma from the (manga) canon story.

Yes, but in all those instances, Ranma doesn't drop life story details and is usually very tight lipped about his past or present circumstances with everyone. You gave examples on how Ranma would show the curse to get out of things, but in how many of those did he ever go on to explain anything about his life? Details about the curse? Even his name? It's always a quick splash of water and "see I'm a guy, can't do it, later."

It'd be better to show the flow of the conversation if it was just a summary. This seems like it would be one of the more important conversations but you've glossed over it. It would work very well to show the shifting perspective. Perhaps Ranma starting off very vague or short and then growing increasingly more desperate to convince them to leave him alone so he explains more and more.

Showing off the curse and giving a few hints at his life are almost overkill and inviting them to try and find out what's wrong instead of just saying "I'm happy to see you again, but I have a new life and can't do this. It brought me nothing but misery before, I feel the same way now, and I will resent any further efforts to try and intrude upon my life. So please just leave me alone. Okay? Okay."

And ya, Gaea comes off as a total bitch. Best case scenario is to just drop any pretense of being human like. It's a freaking planet not some little kid or mother figure. It's decided that Hestia soul or whatever is the one it's want, and if Hestia/Ranma doesn't want to then that's just too bad.

[Pale Wolf]

I shouldn't have to say it, but what she wants is no different than what a parent would want of their child. That's why I don't understand where the "bitch" comes from

Okay, thing is... way you have it right now, this parent is like that parent who wants their child to be a doctor.

The child in question wants to be an engineer. Their talents are equally qualified to either goal, and the one the child wants would be better simply because they're not forcing themselves.

What elevates Gaea to bitchdom: in this extended analogy, she's literally forcing the child to drop the physics courses they're interested in, forcing them to take biology that they fall asleep in the middle of, and in the end will force the child into medical school and disown them if they don't.

Gaea only interested in Ranma/Hestia as Senshi? Fine. As Wyrd pointed out, it can wait as long as it wants. That's still Ranma's choice.

But what you've got is, Gaea is only interested in Ranma as Senshi, whatever Ranma's opinion on the matter, and will force the issue.

[Crescent Pulsar R]

The way you word the scene, it really does sound like Gaea's being a bitch, or is very childish. What I was suggesting was an alternative way of doing things, not the impression I got from the story. Regardless of what you intended, the general response seems to indicate that you did not convey what you meant to convey.

Then again, isn't that the point of going through here in the first place?

Oh, sorry. I read over my response and it seems like the fatigue from only having two hours of sleep over the last three days got my thoughts mixed up with some of Pale Wolf's post when I replied to yours, since yours came after hers. (I was in the middle of responding to hers when you posted yours, so I added my response to you in my original post to her.)

Well, since no one's getting the impression that I intended, it goes without saying that I'll have to work a bit on that part, so the reader will understand exactly what I'm trying to convey. It won't be much of a difference, though, since I want people to see her one way and then see her in action later. Just not as an absolute bitch, since that would be contradictory to what she does later, and might lead the reader to assume they're not the same character with the expanse of difference that would need to be covered.

Right, it's after showing up and being confronted with the senshi, who are super warm and accepting. The conversation starts very much with the senshi coming from a position that Hestia is the same but with a name change.

Ranma has already outright told Phoebe that he's not interested. It's very accommodating of him not to be out of their as quick as possible when it's clearly a plot to get him interested. (On top of the ending when he points out how emotionally devastating it is just to be around them.) It's certainly not out of the question that the senshi are in on it. Phoebe and the other two are the mean ol moon cats trying to be a brute force and then the senshi sweep in to catch Ranma in an compromised situation. Good moon princess bad moon cat.

There's a difference between assuming that Ranma's little or no different from Hestia, and hoping that he is. They kept themselves checked because they hoped, not assumed. That's also how their view was flexible enough for them to make the transition regarding how to refer to him. (Name-wise, anyway. There's still a hangup with the pronoun, since most of their experience with Ranma, both in the past as Hestia and in the present, is as a girl.)

While Ranma can come to the conclusion that it was a plot to get him interested, he's convinced by Usagi that it isn't, which later leaves him confused and wondering what the cats had tried to accomplish in the first place. Unlike the usual Ranma, who'd likely take Usagi's offer at face value and beat it without thinking of some of the likely consequences, the Hestia side of him thought it better to be a bit more intelligent about it. Which doesn't mean that he has to be overly forthcoming, but I'll get to that in the next part.

Yes, but in all those instances, Ranma doesn't drop life story details and is usually very tight lipped about his past or present circumstances with everyone. You gave examples on how Ranma would show the curse to get out of things, but in how many of those did he ever go on to explain anything about his life? Details about the curse? Even his name? It's always a quick splash of water and "see I'm a guy, can't do it, later."

Actually, in several instances, he does tell parts of his life in detail. While he generally prefers to keep such things to himself, it's not that he'd never do it, or do it eventually (which is usually the case). Of course, you have to remember that this is all very circumstantial. For instance, just telling Akane that the situation with Shampoo "is complicated," when she first arrived to kill him, didn't seem like it would be enough to dispel whatever conclusion Akane had drawn. So, he immediately went into the details of what had happened between them, to the point where he's still telling it on their way home. In another instance, concerning Ukyo's sauce, he doesn't say anything because he feels guilty about what he'd done, but he eventually tells Akane about it without being forced by anyone or by being pressured by the circumstances to the point where he has no choice. In regard to the dragon's whisker, he remained silent about it because he would have invited even more people to go after it if he had said anything, and rather than just tell Akane what it does when she discovers what has happened to his hair, he goes into more details than necessary by explaining it with a story. When he remembered his time with Ryoga, back in junior high, he was only too willing to share what had happened between them, rather than keep it to himself. Then there was that time (to show how circumstances can alter a course where Ranma is willing to reveal information about himself) when he had washed up on that island, and the circumstances (no hot water to get out of the situation with the guy there, like he did with Sentaro, and then being "saved" by him when the ceiling collapsed) led him to actually change his mind and keep certain information to himself, until the inevitable happened and the guy found out anyway. In other instances, such as his curse and the neko-ken, he probably would have explained it himself if not for someone (his father) being there to do it instead.

Basically, given enough reason or need within certain circumstances, Ranma is willing to share moments in his past, either voluntarily, obligingly or reluctantly. Just how personal or sensitive the information is is usually irrelevant when all is said and done.

It'd be better to show the flow of the conversation if it was just a summary. This seems like it would be one of the more important conversations but you've glossed over it. It would work very well to show the shifting perspective. Perhaps Ranma starting off very vague or short and then growing increasingly more desperate to convince them to leave him alone so he explains more and more.

Showing off the curse and giving a few hints at his life are almost overkill and inviting them to try and find out what's wrong instead of just saying "I'm happy to see you again, but I have a new life and can't do this. It brought me nothing but misery before, I feel the same way now, and I will resent any further efforts to try and intrude upon my life. So please just leave me alone. Okay? Okay."

This has me a bit confused. A summary is basically glossing over details, which is what you want, yet what you don't want...

While it's an important conversation, I felt that summarizing his reasons, in regard to confirming Usagi's guess (about not being interested), was better than more exposition via dialogue, which is something that I'm always wary of doing too much of, in order to avoid an information dump:

When the presentation of information in fiction becomes wordy, it is sometimes referred to as an "information dump," "exposition dump," or "plot dump." Information dumps expressed by characters in dialogue or monologue are sometimes referred to as "idiot lectures."

Basically, I prefer to assume that my readers aren't idiots who need things explicitly given to them with long and drawn out expositions, in any way, so I try to avoid doing so whenever I'm able.

Beyond that, the last part that I responded to is my way to explain that what he said was not unlike Ranma. Especially because he left out all of the details that weren't necessary.

Okay, thing is... way you have it right now, this parent is like that parent who wants their child to be a doctor.

The child in question wants to be an engineer. Their talents are equally qualified to either goal, and the one the child wants would be better simply because they're not forcing themselves.

What elevates Gaea to bitchdom: in this extended analogy, she's literally forcing the child to drop the physics courses they're interested in, forcing them to take biology that they fall asleep in the middle of, and in the end will force the child into medical school and disown them if they don't.

Gaea only interested in Ranma/Hestia as Senshi? Fine. As Wyrd pointed out, it can wait as long as it wants. That's still Ranma's choice.

But what you've got is, Gaea is only interested in Ranma as Senshi, whatever Ranma's opinion on the matter, and will force the issue.

Well, I can't blame you for coming to that conclusion, because I can see why with what you know, which isn't all there is to know at this point and time in an unfinished story. Which is kind of what I want, but not to the point where someone will stop reading the story before its conclusion.

Anyway, before I continue, rest assured that I will read over my story first, with your comments in mind, to see what I can do without having to change the theme or the ending that I have planned (which are (of course) the reasons this story exists in the first place). Just trying to reassure you kind folks who take some time out of your day to try and help, because I wouldn't bother posting anything for C&C if I had no intention of listening to anyone. I don't want people to get the wrong idea. ;/

[LawOhki]

While Ranma can come to the conclusion that it was a plot to get him interested, he's convinced by Usagi that it isn't, which later leaves him confused and wondering what the cats had tried to accomplish in the first place. Unlike the usual Ranma, who'd likely take Usagi's offer at face value and beat it without thinking of some of the likely consequences, the Hestia side of him thought it better to be a bit more intelligent about it. Which doesn't mean that he has to be overly forthcoming, but I'll get to that in the next part.

How is he convinced by Usagi that it isn't? There's basically no conversation other than Ranma being reassured that the senshi are happy to see that Hestia was reincarnated, and hope to pick up the relationships they had, before you immediately go into Ranma summarizing everything of importance within one block of text.

Basically, given enough reason or need within certain circumstances, Ranma is willing to share moments in his past, either voluntarily, obligingly or reluctantly. Just how personal or sensitive the information is is usually irrelevant when all is said and done.

I agree with the first sentence but the second sentence not at all. If it's personal he's reluctant, if it's impersonal he may just volunteer the information to clear up any misunderstanding. (Like with Akane when Shampoo first arrived.)

This has me a bit confused. A summary is basically glossing over details, which is what you want, yet what you don't want...

While it's an important conversation, I felt that summarizing his reasons, in regard to confirming Usagi's guess (about not being interested), was better than more exposition via dialogue, which is something that I'm always wary of doing too much of, in order to avoid an information dump:

No, I suggested that you include a dialogue section in which Ranma's explains things in a very vague way until he see's that is has less than the desired effect become more specific. It's not an info dump if it's advancing the plot and showing how the characters relate to each other. In fact your summary is nothing but an info dump that you then had to add a bunch of dialogue afterward to explain character reactions.

Basically, I prefer to assume that my readers aren't idiots who need things explicitly given to them with long and drawn out expositions, in any way, so I try to avoid doing so whenever I'm able.

We know about Ranma's life, what we don't know is how this changed Ranma relates to the senshi, and how he presented this information. How they gave Ranma any information. Any misunderstandings that might result from this? Any new perspectives on past events? Reasons why Ranma explained A, B, or C? Establish how Ranma wants to relate to the senshi now. Etc.

[Crescent Pulsar R]

How is he convinced by Usagi that it isn't? There's basically no conversation other than Ranma being reassured that the senshi are happy to see that Hestia was reincarnated, and hope to pick up the relationships they had, before you immediately go into Ranma summarizing everything of importance within one block of text.

It really shouldn't be that hard to see why he would be convinced. For one, past experience from Hestia's point of view gives him a reason. For another, he's never met them before in the present as Ranma, so he has nothing to base trust or mistrust on that front. Then, not only is there the part where Usagi gives him an out, but she later accepts that his feelings are no different from Hestia's and changed the topic.

Really, trying to make it any more clear would just be redundant, as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with the first sentence but the second sentence not at all. If it's personal he's reluctant, if it's impersonal he may just volunteer the information to clear up any misunderstanding. (Like with Akane when Shampoo first arrived.)

Okay... You agree with the first sentence, yet say that, as far as something being personal is concerned, he would be reluctant to talk about/reveal whatever it is that's personal... which is exactly what is included in the first sentence. *Scratches head*

Look, I get it that people end up having certain, differentiating views on what kind of person Ranma is. I'm convinced that this is due -- at least in part -- to the fact that Ranma is actually a fairly flexible character, no doubt due to some of the whims of Takahashi herself. If I remember some past discussions/arguments between us (or you with others) correctly, then we probably agree that there are some stories where Ranma just doesn't seem like the Ranma we're more familiar with, such as the Gambling King story and the Reversal Jewel story. (Again, if I remember correctly.)

While Ranma is notable for withholding information for one reason or another, we know that certain circumstances can change that, regardless of how he feels about the information in question. Circumstances can change a lot of things, or reveal something that was there all along, that was just waiting for the appropriate time to show itself. We've seen Ranma do, think and say a lot of things; even things that we normally wouldn't attribute to his character. For instance, while many people (us readers/watchers) are convinced that he's an uneducated jerk that has a severe lack of social mores, there are enough instances to suggest that he's not, which usually depends on the occasion.

In the end, we're ultimately arguing over opinion. I can't replace my Ranma with your Ranma because I'm not as familiar with yours as I am with mine. And I'm reasonably comfortable with how I'm portraying him in my story, in part because the addition of Hestia's memories gives me a little room to do things a little differently with him.

No, I suggested that you include a dialogue section in which Ranma's explains things in a very vague way until he see's that is has less than the desired effect become more specific. It's not an info dump if it's advancing the plot and showing how the characters relate to each other. In fact your summary is nothing but an info dump that you then had to add a bunch of dialogue afterward to explain character reactions.

We know about Ranma's life, what we don't know is how this changed Ranma relates to the senshi, and how he presented this information. How they gave Ranma any information. Any misunderstandings that might result from this? Any new perspectives on past events? Reasons why Ranma explained A, B, or C? Establish how Ranma wants to relate to the senshi now. Etc.

But he already gives the information as vaguely as he can give it. The situation is a bit too complicated for him to say anything less without making any sense at all. And in the same way that he wanted to get it done with and out of the way, so he could leave, summing it all up in a paragraph reflects that. There's really no opportunity to express any of that other stuff; anything that could have would not have really changed anything, or added anything worth noting, and thus would have been redundant.

However, I will still consider changing the paragraph, since it'd be stupid to overlook something that I might later find some merit in with enough thought.

[frice2000]

really shouldn't be that hard to see why he would be convinced. For

Going to have to partially agree with Law here. Hestia/Ranma wants no part in the Senshi games and this entire thing was a big setup. Yes he might have positive feelings with the Senshi especially Usagi and easily buy their explanation but it would be very plausible and realistic to have some initial suspicion and to be especially angry with the Mau. Of course he can forgive them too easily enough but I agree honestly some sort of anger or irritation is very justified here. But you're right in that this can be very easily defused.