The Best! A Marvel/SF/Ranma crossover!

[antimatterenergy]

khim - that's somewhat true for every hero ever if two hero's are fighting that does not apply. Many times heros lose as well. There are a lot of dark fairy tales as well where the villian wins or where heros die. Also I don't agree with the differance between Ranma and Ryoga was bigger than the differance between Herb and Ranma. Herb is way more powerful and skilled than Ryoga ever was. Ranma had several options even without a ki blast that he could have used but didn't like throwing stuff or using the Hiryu Shoten Ha against Ryoga. Anyways that entire story line was a giant joke in the original japanese and is not a very good example to use to judge Ranma in battle.
Khortez - agree with that. Wolverine vs. Lobo in the marvel vs DC comics had wolverine beat Lobo when lobo is way out of wolverines league. Back in 1981 Batman beat the Hulk without prep time.
Palewolf - I too prefer Ranma to win as the underdog. It's more dramatic. I just don't like when Ranma is made weaker just so he can be built up. If you want Ranma to lose or barely win there are plenty of beliveable ways to do so. Stack the deck against Ranma like vs Saffron - time limit, unfamiliar weapon, aerial battle, more powerful- Have Ranma get distracted mid-battle like he did vrs Ryu, Have Ranma screw up from over or lack of confidence, Have multiple opponents, set traps - like taro did, have the opponent have one skill that is way beyond Ranma like the flash's speed is so much higher, etc...
Nekomata-sensei - From what I know of Iron fist is that he's a better martial artist than Captain America or wolverine and one of the best in all of the Marvel Universe but Ranma could beat him as well. He has no ranged attacks. His powers (gotten from a dragon heart) allows him to increase his strength, speed, reflexes and senses with his main ability to make a super hard punch and he can also use the power to heal himself and others the reason Ranma would win is because even though he can increase his physical abilities he can't do so as much as Ranma's are, he has no ranged attacks, and he can only use his powers for a relatively short time (relatively because Ranma can use his for hours on end) and when he does use his power it leaves him physically and mentally drained, unable to repeat the act for a time.
Taskmaster would be a good opponent Ranma can do what taskmaster does to a lesser degree (i.e. see a technique and copy it ex. Ranma learned the umisenken and happosai's pipe technique this way). Though Taskmaster doesn't have the physical abilities to keep up with Ranma unassisted he would be able to show Ranma where Ranma is making mistakes. Taskmaster would be able to keep up with Ranma because he commonly uses deadly weapons i.e. sword and guns and he is now carrying a device on his arm that allows him to create shapes out of solid energy that he uses to copy other peoples weapons like captain america's shield or spiderman's webbing and he uses traps and holographic technology to disguise himself.

[claymade]

Oh, he not a "invincible martial arts demigod"... Just a guy with tonn of fighting experience, tactical sense and lots of luck... All this combined save his arse more that one time .

*chuckle* Well, "demigod" was a bit of hyperbole, I admit. It's just that I like the idea of him needing help from others sometimes to make it through his fights, that he can't do them all on his own. And since that scene is (at least, as I see it) one of the more clear and poignant instances of this, I tend to feel compelled to defend it with the crazed fury of a rabid wombat.
(Besides, don't you think the scene is so more dramatic as a "last second rescue from a finishing blast that would have taken him down!" rather than a "ok, nice effort, but inconsequential in the larger scheme of things..."?)

Or if you need another comparision - it's like folktales: just like the evil witch/wizard/khan/etc is always defeated by use of the last magical artifact... Ranma always wins with the last ditch effort. And like witch/wizard/khan/etc can not win in folktales Ranma can not be defeated in a deciding fight. End of story.

All that's really referencing is one specific outworking of the more general "the good guys always win in the end" metarule. The problem is that it really tells us nothing about Ranma's ability or lack thereof to win a particular fight. Rather than saying "Ranma never loses when defeat is not an option" you could just as easily turn it around and say "there's always another option whenever Ranma loses." Victory might not even come through a fight in the end; Ranma might get his rear handed to him by Sauron only to have Plum toss the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom. It's all up to the author of the story.

There is no real need to make Ranma weaker Ranma can stay just as strong, powerful, etc.. and still learn from the others. Ranma is more than willing to limit himself to his opponents fighting style and abilities we have seen him do this several times in the manga. Even if Ranma can if he wanted to defeat the other with ease that doesn't mean much, the others can still teach Ranma a lot and Ranma can probably teach them a lot as well.

But that will still create a strong sense of condescension, which I suspect will be toxic to the atmosphere this fic seems (to me) to be trying to cultivate. While it may be true that the master can learn from the student, that doesn't make the master any less the master, or the student any less the student.
If Ranma goes into any scene with a power level of "I can kick y'all's rears, but since I'm so nice I'll fight you down on your own puny little level" it'll almost certainly suck most of the tension from said scene. And worse, anything he does learn from them will feel like less a "striving to better himself in a meaningful sense" and more like a "collecting cool tricks like baseball cards." To do make a compelling "growth" fic, you need to have a compelling reason and need for growth.
Ultimately, "proper" arrangement of the power tiers is of minimal import to a fic. I can forgive a fic that messes with the power tiers six ways from Sunday, no problem. But a fic with a boring, overpowerful hero who's better than most everybody he comes into contact with? With the only tension coming from massive handicaps, either self-imposed or imposed by circumstance? That's death.

[antimatterenergy]

That's true it may create a sense of condescension but that doesn't mean Ranma has to be at the bottom of the tier mid-tier works as well and there are many beings in the marvel-verse Ranma stands no chance what so ever against in straight combat. Really though it depends on how you write it you can write it like Ranma has the attitude that he's superior to them and is patronizing them or you can write it like Ranma respects their abilities and considers them to be equals or you can even write it like Ranma is a more jack of all trades type person going to specialists in a particular field for advice but will never actually be as good as them in that particular field because he's to generalized.

[camk4evr]

Okay, I'm starting to see that Captain America and Daredevil would probably lose against Ranma. Probably Electra and Wolverine too. Ranma might be able to beat Sakura even though Sakura's ki skills are better. I'm not even sure if I suggested Ranma vs. Spidey, I think I had them teamed up only, but I'm probably not going to be actually getting that far in this fic even if I do write it, I posted this up as an idea for the chance to inspire someone else, nothing is set in stone.

That's because you didn't suggest Ranma Vs. Spidey, Nekomata.
While I'm not a fan of any of the superheroes you suggested facing off against Ranma (of the superheroes mentioned in this thread, so far, I only read Spider-man), I would point out that most, if not all, of them have more (life or death) combat experience than Ranma and have fought oponents that are many times more dangerous/powerful than Ranma.
Spider-man, for example, has beaten Firelord, Graviton, the Rhino, the Hulk (sorta), the X-men, the Juggernaut (sorta).

[antimatterenergy]

I would point out that most, if not all, of them have more (life or death) combat experience than Ranma and have fought oponents that are many times more dangerous/powerful than Ranma.
Spider-man, for example, has beaten Firelord, Graviton, the Rhino, the Hulk (sorta), the X-men, the Juggernaut (sorta).

Ranma has his share of life or death combat as well vs Ryoga, Saffron, Herb, Kodachi (Razor sharp hoops) etc...
Rhino, Hulk, Juggernaut are stronger and tougher sure but they have pretty crappy tactics way worse than Ranma, are slower than Ranma, have a hell of a lot less hand to hand skill, have less ranged attacks (only can throw stuff), and they can not dodge in the ways Ranma can and would. (I figure Happosai's pipe trick and the Hiryu Shoten Ha would be pretty cool used against these people. Just imagine the size of the Tornado if he used it on the Hulk. - and all life has an aura and anger makes them stronger even dogs and fish give battle auras off in the Ranma manga auras are generally invisible to most people though)
The X-men as a group are very formidable but individually they are not really as dangerous as Ranma or spiderman himself (not counting super strength Rogue, Jean Grey as the pheonix, or telepathically attacking). Storm, Cyclops, beast have pretty impressive powers but if Spiderman hits them they will go down with what amounts to a tap from Spiderman. Colossus can't really be hurt by Ranma or Spiderman in his armored state but he's to slow to even touch Ranma or Spiderman if they are dodging. Ranma would most likely do as well as spiderman would against them. Probably better since Ranma has shown that he's more resistive to heat (has heated up himself to temperature hot enough to kill when Happosai gave him a cold), cold (being frozen only annoyed him), and electricity (while on Ashrura he had enough electricity flowing through him that he was giving off sparks and Kodachi uses weapons with electrical shocks) than spiderman. But really this all depends on which x-men line up you are using and what tactics they are using because neither Ranma or spiderman has a defense against telepathy. Also it depends on circumstances, intent (i.e. subdue or kill), or location (stuff to bounce off, use as weapons, block with, room to dodge, etc..) Also what kind of damage is desired up close Ranma and spiderman are generally much deadlier but storm for instance could cause much larger problems to a wider area at a distance.
Personally I thought spiderman fighting firelord was pretty stupid since Firelord is beyond Spiderman's level. Firelord is on the level where I'd call in the Avengers to fight him. Since Firelord is capable of flight, manipulating flames, is nearly invulnerable, capable of intersteller travel, power cosmic, etc.. Firelord by all rights should have just grabbed spidermans arm and took him into space.
As for graviton well in the spiderman gameboy game he's pretty easy all he does is throw rocks. In the comic he severally injured spiderman at least once that I remember and Ironman then went and defeated him not spiderman. But he is pretty impressive thor working with Ironman had trouble fighting him and ended up defeating himself and one time he almost reshaped the planet in his own image.

[camk4evr]

The Hulk:
All the Hulk needs to do to end a battle with Ranma is clap his hands. The winds generated will send Ranma flying and when he lands...
The X-men:
During the Secret Wars Spider-man stumbled upon the X-men planning to leave to join Magneto. As soon as he was found out he took out Prof. X and completely humiliated the rest of the X-men while trying to escape. He wasn't attempting to hurt them and they were trying to stop him (not kill). The X-men's line up at that time consisted of Storm, Colosus, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue, and Prof. X. The only reason he didn't tell Reed Richards was because Prof. X regained his senses by then.
Firelord (and other ridiculously powerful beings near that level)
Actually, I kinda agree. There's no way that Spider-man should be able to beat them (or a fair number of his rogues gallery when you think about) but he still does. He generally out-thinks them or just pisses them off (he does a better job of that, sometimes, than Ranma^-^) until they make mistakes. There's also been a few times where he's won just by getting so pissed that he didn't care anymore.

[antimatterenergy]

The Hulk:
All the Hulk needs to do to end a battle with Ranma is clap his hands. The winds generated will send Ranma flying and when he lands...

Yeah but the same is true for spiderman and Ranma has a couple techniques to use on the Hulk that spiderman doesn't (Hiryu Shoten Ha, Happosai's pipe trick) and I doubt that the Hulk would start by clapping his hands since he rarely does that . Also it depends on who is writing hulk and which version of hulk is being used and whether Hulk is really interested in fighting Ranma because the Hulk will lots of times just try and get away instead of fight for example Ranma would probably be able to beat or at least tie with no really winner movie hulk and tv show hulk maybe some cartoon versions and some versions of Hulk in the comics (possibly mindless Hulk and savage hulk since they have crappy tactics and Ranma could probably get them into the Hiryu Shoten Ha repeatedly) but other versions Ranma and Spiderman would not even be able to stand a few minutes into the fight. If the hulk does send Ranma flying via shockwaves Ranma is likely to run away and try and come up with some trick to use on the hulk unless the Hulk decides to go and grab Ranma. (If the Hulk manages to get a hold of Ranma, Ranma (spiderman, most people in the marvelverse for that matter stand) no chance.)

The X-men:
During the Secret Wars Spider-man stumbled upon the X-men planning to leave to join Magneto. As soon as he was found out he took out Prof. X and completely humiliated the rest of the X-men while trying to escape. He wasn't attempting to hurt them and they were trying to stop him (not kill). The X-men's line up at that time consisted of Storm, Colosus, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue, and Prof. X. The only reason he didn't tell Reed Richards was because Prof. X regained his senses by then.

Ranma would have little trouble in this situation. Suprise attack taking out the telepath and the other trying to subdue him and him not trying to cause them injury. Ranma could probably dodge them all day long and if Ranma wanted to get away he probably would without having to fight them all since Ranma is fast enough that several of them would not be able to keep up or even see him as more than a blur while running (Colosus, Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops) and Ranma unlike spiderman actually knows some stealth techniques. I don't remember if I ever read that story arc but if Spiderman didn't get away I'd bet it was becuase the professor woke up and mind zapped him.

[Khortez]

Ranma stands no chance against the Hulk. The worst Ranma could do to him would probably make him a few seconds late to whatever pressing engagement he had to attend to. The absolutely worse thing Ranma would be to piss him off, as that just makes the Hulk stronger. Its nearly laughable to think that a Hiryu Shoten Ha will have any effect on the Hulk, other than possibly make him angry that his purple pants get scratched. Also, contrary to popular thought, when it comes to the Hulk brawn trumps brains every time, and the mindless savage Hulk is the most dangerous form of the Hulk there is.
As for the X-men, he might be able to handle them 1 on 1, but he would lose to them if they were fighting him as a team. Storm alone could take him down, and the Hiryu Shoten Ha would have no effect on someone who can control forces of nature such as that. Spidey should have had no chance in that situation either, but Spidey is the golden boy of Marvel, the most popular character without, and the most experienced fighter within. Ranma usually goes into fights without knowing what his opponents are capable of, so it really wouldn't make sense for him to know who is a telepath and go after them first.
Just like with the Hulk, should Ranma ever fight Juggernaut, Jugg's tactics won't matter at all, because the Juggernaut is all about power, and no matter how hard Ranma hits him, he just doesn't have the raw power to do any damage to him.

[antimatterenergy]

Ranma can't really defeat the Hulk or Juggernaut (depending on versions some he stands a chance against) becuase they're too tough but he can keep them busy. The Hiryu Shoten Ha would not defeat the Hulk or Jugs but it would send them flying. Mindless Hulk is not the same as Savage Hulk mindless was very stupid whereas Savage Hulk was child like.
In the situation outlined Spiderman or Ranma isn't trying to defeat the X-men they were trying to get away. Would make perfect sense if the telepath was the first one he happened to run in to. First Ranma can create his tornados faster than storm can (see battle vs Lucky and Happosai in manga) and second Ranma is able to manipulate them to some degree after throwing them and Storm has lost control of tornados before. Really why would Ranma even use a tornado against her? A shallow punch would knock her out and a regular Mokotakabisha (blows right through brick walls) would probably kill her. She has the durability of a normal fit human unlike Ranma's usual opponents. Depending on what team members he's happening to fight he can defeat an entire team. It also depends on terrain (things for him to bounce off of use to block with) and intent. If they are trying to take him out not kill him they would be using non lethal methods probably underestimating his toughness also if he's dodging around they'd have to worry about hitting each other (plus he would be really hard to hit since he moves fast enough to become just a blur several times in the manga). Distance from people - if he starts out a few feet from them he could take out half of them without them (at least those with normal durability) even seeing him move like he did during the Watermelon Race: Starting bell is rung, and before anyone else can react Ranma took out 10 or so contestants. Switch it to them trying to kill and it's different Cyclops would just tear of his visor and destroy everything in front of him within eye sight likely hurting Ranma and anyone else who happens to be in that direction unless Ranma takes him out fast enough or uses someone like Colosus or something to block the blow.

[Khortez]

Ranma wouldn't be able to stop the Hulk or the Juggernaut, nor even slow them down. The Hiryu Shoten Ha, no matter how powerful he makes it, won't do a whit of damage to these guys. When I made reference to the mindless savage Hulk, I was talking about when he had forgone all reason and just was angry, like the time that he started whooping on Onslaught. These guys are all about the overwhelming power, and if you don't have it, you can't stop them.
The X-men are quite used to fighting fast people, like Quicksilver who is faster than Ranma. You are also thinking that just because they don't want to kill Ranma, that they are going to take it easy on him and underestimate him. While that may have been true in the cartoon, in the comics, they are quick to use more force than necessary especially if they are being attacked or attacking someone. They'll feel bad about it afterwards, but they will take whoever it is down. They are also used to fighting as a group, so they aren't likely to hit one of their own due to some quick maneuvering. Ranma wouldn't go straight for the telepaths, because Prof X probably wouldn't seem like such a big threat to the unknowing and unsuspecting Ranma, and thus be taken down faster than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
Ranma wouldn't be able to even get to Storm because if you remember she can fly and can control wind, lighting, rain, and all that. Should he try to get her in the air, he'd be at her mercy and at the mercy of those at ground level when he lands.
I'll stick to my original point, that Ranma may be able to beat them one on one, but he doesn't even stand a fighting chance should the X-men fight as a team, like they often do.

[Zwzn]

Ranma might have abilities similar to the Crimson Comando. He can walk right up to a telepath and the telepath won't realize until after he has struck.
What about the Neko-Ken attacking a telepath 's mind.

[Tovath]

What about the Neko-Ken attacking a telepath 's mind.

Now this is likely to happen

[antimatterenergy]

Xavier would not seem like a threat to Ranma. Why do you say that? Some of the most dangerous people Ranma's met are the elderly Happosai and Cologne followed by children Saffron, Happosai's friend Lucky who used the curse of the little boy water, and Mrs Hinako. If asked who was the most dangerous and shown Peter Parker, the Hulk, and a defenseless looking old man Ranma would probably say the old man.
I'd like to continue arguing about Ranma vs the X-men but I'm not going to do so anymore because there are far too many variables. Which versions of the X-men are being used original, movie, 1990 cartoon show, Evolution, Astonishing, Uncanny, New X-men, ect...? How long have they been together just starting out, several years? Which X-men are on the team Ranma is fighting Bishop, Archangel, Wolverine, Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Cable, nightcrawler, etc...? How many is he going against? For those X-men whose powersets have altered during whichever version is being used which power set is being used? What terrain is being used? Are there objects that can be used offensively or defensively in field? What's the starting distance? What objective does Ranma have kill, defeat, escape from, steal an item from, etc..? Are the X-men trying to subdue him, Kill him, reason with him, sleep with him, etc...? Do either side have knowledge of the others abilities? Is Ranma equiped with weapons like he occasionally uses if so what types? etc...
VS storm why would Ranma have to go into the air to fight her? He can take her out either by running up to her and hitting her, throwing another X-man at her, throwing a ki blast, before she has a chance to get in the air. If she is in the air (provided she can do so and this is not an enclosed space and is not in easy jumping distance for him where he can jump kick her and bounce off her to attack another X-man) he can still throw things at her like rocks, or coins he has in his pocket, or stuff he steals from one of the other X-men, or ki blast. He has incredible accuracy at throwing stuff threw a pencil through the hole of a yen coin from several meters away while hanging onto the ceiling, nocked out a murder of crows flicking rocks, and threw the magic staff after the battle vs Saffron threw hurricane force winds to land exactly in the slot and then turn. Considering Ranma's strength and speed those items he throws would be moving pretty fast as well not easy to dodge.

[bissek]

Xavier isn't an old man. He's an old man who can't leave his wheelchair. That might affect Ranma's threat evaluation, especially if he hasn't encountered a true telepath before (which he hasn't in canon). Jean Grey would be a more obvious threat to Ranma's fighting style. A quick telekinetic grip could trip up his footing at any time, taking away the agility which is his primary advantage. That's a much more severe threat to him than flying objects, which he can dodge.
Ranma v Hulk? A HSH on Hulk would be quite impressive. The winds generated would probably wreck everything within half a mile. I'd say the damage done to Hulk after that attack would keep him down for say... five seconds, tops. You'd have to hit him with that at least twenty times before Hulk suffered enough cumulative damage to really care. That said, one hit from Hulk could turn Ranma into paste. Ranma might be able to keep Hulk busy until reinforcements could arrive (By focusing all of Hulk's attention on a fast-moving and annoying target instead of wrecking anything else), but there's no way he'd knock the guy down for the count.
Ranma v Juggernaught? A hit from Juggernaught wouldn't do as much damage as one from Hulk, but it would still be serious. Also, Juggernaught primary skill is near invulnerability. I'd say the only things Ranma has that might be able to injure him are Kijin Raishu Dan and the Neko-ken. Everything else would barely be able to get his attention. Again, Ranma could keep his opponent busy until backup arrived (Again, by being a major nuisance), but he could never win alone. Ranma would be much better off going up against lesser ridiculously tough villains like Rhino.

[Metroidvania]

Hmm...the Rhino probably wouldn't be a problem, especially once he loses his temper due to Ranma's antagonistic nature, and just starts blindly charging....and he's nowhere near invincible, as I've seen Spidey beat on him in the comics several times.
The Shocker would also be good for a starting villan....depending on which comic you're using, again....in some, his technology is better than others. But his blasts aren't impressive at all compared to almost anything in the marvel universe......