Weird Ranma reincarnation oneshot

[Spokavriel]

That just made me think of something. And the compromise isn't really needed. I was just responding to something also not needed.

Now here's the thing I just thought of. You can blame it on training injuries if you want but Ranma has a pretty poor long term memory. Will he even remember that his little girls are supposed to be reincarnations by the time they are 16? I mean he was at least 5 before the big training trip and he even forgot his own mother.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

So, Ranma and Shampoo being cured straight out is the answer we've come to an agreement over? Alright, glad to get that topic out of the way. And nobody got too badly hurt this time; that's a welcome relief.

Actually, isn't Ranma generally supposed to be about 2 or 3 years old when he was taken on that training trip? But, either way, you do have a point; if he forgot his mother after 14 years, forgetting who Sakura and Ume "really" are after 16 years is quite possible. I mean, I don't think Shampoo would really want to remind him of that, especially if the two of them are focusing on bringing the girls up as normal, and if Soun passed away some time ago (say, when the girls were 2 to 4), it's actually more than likely that he has forgotten all of the nasty details about their initial conception- he's certainly not got any real reason to want to remember the events.

And now that's been brought up, what possible impacts could it have?

Edit: just remembered; but when his memory is jogged, he can usually dig up a surprisingly detailed amount of info. Recall how he remembered Ukyo crying on the day he left, and it only took a little nudging from her to remember that he and Genma had "left" with Genma running for his life with the Kuonji yattai and Ranma sitting obliviously on top?

Edit: also, while I think about it, should it be discussed how Ranma & Shampoo's appearance and personalities have changed? 16 years and parenthood do things to a person...

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Ignore this post, it's just for my benefit; reaffirming what other things remain to be done for the cast.

-Sakura & Ume Saotome
*Figure out close personas (siblings, friends, love interests, rivals)

-Ranma & Shampoo
*Figure out if they have more kids? (This might blend into Sakura & Ume above)
*Come up with some 'noodle incidents' to mention or perhaps have fallout.

-Notable personas
*Figure out basic concepts (who they are, what they do, what they can do, what their ties to the Saotome family are, etc)

[Spokavriel]

But Ranma still needs the nudge to remember. And why would anyone involved in this before the girls awaken to their past self want to risk reminding Ranma of what he sees as his greatest or at least most painful failure?

Now as for personality changes. What are other Parents in Nerima like. Principal Kuno, Soun Tendo, Not allot to go on. What do they have to protect their children from. Just what would they stop themselves from doing so that the kids don't get ideas that would hurt themselves?

After all this time I doubt Shampoo would have any remaining impediment to her fluency in Japanese. And given their martial arts skill I don't think either of them would look much more mature than young adults. No wrinkles or graying yet.

The way Jonathan Frakes (Riker in Star Trek The Next Generation) has filled out comes to mind. He's gone from a physique that is more or less swooned over to a more solid but not in any way softer figure.

Edit: About the Training Trip. The 10 year Training Trip was clearly not Ranma's first but it is repeatedly said that Nodoka had been separated from them because of that trip for 10 years. That puts Ranma around 5-7 the last time Nodoka saw him and when that contract was signed. Ranma was obviously younger on the trip with the Fish rice and pickles.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Yes, I know he needs the nudge, I was just saying that when he is pressed to remember, he does remember quite well. And I thought I was saying that there's nobody who'd want to remind him of things.

Thanks for bringing up the other local parents (grandparents?)... that is a tricky question. Remind me; these would be Soun Tendo, Genma Saotome, Nodoka Saotome, and Principal Kuno, correct?

Yeah, I agree that Shampoo would most likely have mastered Japanese by this time. Hmm... would she have taught Ranma Chinese?

Given what we've seen in canon, where Happosai's picture at the age of 200 looked roughly in his mid-40's (or a balding mid-30's), I agree that wrinkles and the like aren't too like- they've gotten the good part of growing up, but the bad stuff won't come for a "long" time yet. Hmm... do you think they've changed their usual outfit style and/or hairstyle?

Edit: I don't recall it ever being said that Nodoka was seperated from her husband and son for 10 years. I recall her saying she waited for years and waited patiently, but never a specific number. Though I get your point; either way, it does say something negative about Ranma's long-term memory. At least when it comes to stuff he doesn't think about.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Hmm... on the elders... I have some rudimentary ideas, but I'm not sure how accurate that they are.

Cologne
Cologne might still be alive and kicking, or she might be dead, or she might be somewhere in between- 16 years is a fair number when you're 300+ to start with. If she is still around, she's probably slowed down somewhat in her old age; while she still teaches her descendants, it's more likely to be as an instructor than as a sparring partner, like she used to be with Ranma. I don't know whether she'd have moved in with Ranma & Shampoo, or gone back to the village and keeps in touch via technological/mystical methods.

Happosai
If Ume and Sakura were lucky, this nasty little pervert would be dead and buried. Unfortunately, the Saotome luck tends to flow down the other stream. The old goat is probably still bouncing around Nerima, stealing underwear and having the time of his blasphemous parody of a life. I doubt that he'd be living in the former Tendo dojo anymore, especially if Cologne has moved in... which may or may not alter his pattern/regime/whatever you want to call it of panty raids.

Principal Kuno
It's very hard to say what might have happened to this lunatic. On the one hand, I postulated what happened to the Kuno siblings, but on the other hand this guy makes Genma Saotome look like a model father; he doesn't seem to give a damn about his families. He might still be ruling Furinkan Highschool, or he might have bogged off back to Hawaii; hard to say.

Soun Tendo
Now this guy, I'm having problems with. One of the biggest is that it's been my base assumption he allowed Ranma's family to take over the dojo... but why would he do that? Then again, all the evidence from the series seems to be that he really expects the Saotomes to supplant his martial arts school and use the dojo for themselves, and with his own daughter/student reduced to babyhood, he doesn't really have anyone left to take it. But then there's the problem of Ryoga and Kasumi. Not to mention the little voice that won't shut up that suggests Soun might have died of heart problems sometime when Sakura and Ume were little, even though I don't see any possible use in that idea.

Genma & Nodoka Saotome
I'm drawing a blank on the elder Saotomes fate. It's possible that Genma's been cured, especially seeing as his son and his daughter-in-law have been, and if he was cured he almost certainly went back to Nodoka, as Ranma's curse was the key thing that made him worry she'd call in that seppuku contract. But I don't know if she would have taken him back or not, and I'm not sure how she would have reacted to being introduced to Shampoo, Sakura and Ume. I don't know what she knows about the whole death/rebirth mess.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

As it's more or less the next topic, I was just wondering: how many "noodle incidents" do you think should be assembled for Ranma & Shampoo? That is, stuff that has happened before Akane & Nabiki's conscious memory and which may not even be known to Sakura and Ume- stuff that happened when they were really young or which their parents did without their knowledge? Also, should said incidents be merely references/stories (akin to the "undetailed cases of Sherlock Holmes" mentioned by Watson in some stories), or should some of them have fallout, aka the Chardin incident of Soun & Genma?

[Spokavriel]

The Reason Soun couldn't let his Son in law Ryouga take over the Dojo is because his location is too un-reliable. While there are ways to survive being such an infinite wanderer you can't have students at a Dojo while doing it. So Ranma who is already being the new parent to his daughters so he's also family no matter what is keeping things running and this way Kasumi doesn't have to be left home alone waiting for her spouse to return from whichever wandering destination he got to. Even if it's only the hall closet

Edit: One important fallout that should occur before the girls get to 16 would be the ascension of Lord Saffron of the Phoenix. Between the damages Ranma caused and appearing to keep the keys. Well theres a big reason for there to be involvement in that and it appeared they did it when Saffron was just about to become an adolescent. I don't see why the timing in a repeat wouldn't be the same. The real question there giving some flexibility is how long does he end up staying in the Egg?

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Makes sense to me. So, the current population of the Tendo Dojo is thus?
Ranma Saotome
Shan Pu Saotome
Ume Saotome (Akane Tendo)
Sakura Saotome (Nabiki Tendo)
Khu Lon(?)
Kasumi Hibiki (Hibiki-Tendo?)
Ryoga Hibiki (Hibiki-Tendo?)
Soun Tendo(?)
(Other Saotome kids?)

...I think they'll have needed to expand since the 90's.

By the way, did you see my thoughts on what the present fates of of Ranma's age-group might be? Or should I repost them?

And do you have any insight on the random thoughts for the elders that I just put together? Well, besides the reason why Ranma and Shampoo took over the dojo (which was very helpful; thanks for that).

Edit: hmm... I am actually aiming more for the anime continuity with this story, as I'm not too familiar with the later manga. I don't think Ranma did keep the Ice and Fire Staves after that story in canon, though. Also, Saffron hatched from his egg sometime before Ranma & co actually left the place; I'm positive you see him in Kiima's arms as a baby boy sucking on a pacifier as one of the final scenes involving the Phoenix People.

Re-Edit: a sudden random thought occurs to me; in canon, Ranma got 'engaged' to Shampoo involuntarily. Is there a possible comedic element in Ume getting engaged to a guy in a similar way? Say, a teenage male Joketsuzoku comes to Nerima to study under the Saotomes, but he meets and gets into an argument with Ume at some point beforehand, whereupon she unthinkingly channels her past life and manages to lay him out be complete accident, whereupon he wakes up and gives her a searing "Kiss of Marriage"? Not sure if it would survive once he discovers she's the daughter of the senseis he came to study under though...

[Spokavriel]

No I don't think the Outsider laws can apply to a Matriarch's, even if it is a former Matriarch, family. But look at how Moose was after Shampoo. And the statement of having lost to Shampoo when he was little. What if in channeling her past life she still loses and it was a Marriage challenge. They may not be cannon but there is support and those can still happen within the tribe.

I think Cologne should be alive. Unlike a certain Letch she isn't 300+ because of being a parasite. And for her age she was quite spry. Active individuals have an obvious degradation. I know I saw it repeatedly among residents of old folks homes. One which is just a block from my apartment. When someone is active even appearing withered they tend to go slower than people who aren't so active. While I admit 16 years is a long time. For someone who survived 300 instead of the average 70-90 I have real world experience with. It's not so much.

Happosai on the other hand he constantly courts disaster. Any loss in his ability to leach Chi and he's signed his own death certificate. At least his once Girl Friend (Seperated because they weren't exactly dating) has a life where she could take it easier and not end up killed by the reactions of the others in the immediate area.

If you think the Kuno family has enough clout to keep Principal Kuno in his job he should still be head of Furinkan. He took trips before so if he is at school or in the islands when this takes place completely up to you. But I think a Fun Kuno family twist would to be having Kodachi as a Physical Education instructor at either Furinkan or a rival school.

Unless you think she can avoid legal troubles from her not quite legitimate horticulture and worse. I some how get the feeling that the district council would like to keep the Kuno family contained in Nerima. The phrase is hide your shame.

Soun had a non-life more or less ever since his wife died. Now 2/3 of his remaining family has been lost. Only his first little girl is left. Is Kasumi enough for him to go on? Plan for reincarnation or not I have trouble seeing him make it through the 16 years. And no matter what he is going to be a classic definition Wraith. Something withered and twisted.

The Saotome's I don't think Nodoka would let Genma get away with avoiding his Husbandly duties. Should there be more kids from that Union? Would Nodoka be tricked into more Training Trips after that 10 year one? I doubt it but maybe if she had more than one child this time and she wouldn't end up alone...

You know it might be fun to have all the Kuno's working at Furinkan. Stick Tatewaki as a History teacher and head of the Kendo club. Just like the cannon character who runs and lives in the lesser known school store. Just a stray thought.

As to the construction of additions to the Tendo dojo. While the rooms seen for the girls were kinda small. The Guest room was at least as large as 2 of them together. And we have no idea how large Soun's room was. Without The Master there's also that larger room. I think some remodeling that doesn't change the footprint of the building may actually allow for this larger dual family. And there's still the Attic that I saw at least once.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Your first statement is a little hard to follow; are you saying that a 'casual' Kiss of Marriage wouldn't be viable, due to Ume's relationship to Cologne, but you think the idea of her somehow getting involved in an 'official' engagement battle, due to her preincarnation-inspired antics, and thus getting an Amazon boyfriend that way would be funny?

Good point. So, should Cologne be in Nerima, or has she moved back to the village to take up "matriarch duties"? Though, just to point out, there isn't really any canon evidence that she's an authority figure back home- she seems to be a historian and a martial arts instructor, but we aren't told she's nobility or something like that.

Again, good point. So should Happosai still be kicking around, or should he have finally bought the farm? Either way, he's out of the Tendo Dojo... or would that be the Saotome Dojo, now?

Hmm... sounds like a nice idea. Perhaps Kodachi is the Horticulture and/or Home Economics teacher instead of/in addition to her role as Physical Educator? And Tatewaki as the Kendo Club head and a history teacher sounds too good to pass up.

Now, my main objection to the idea that Soun was dead was because I didn't think you'd "buy it", so to speak. But if you feel it's more likely that he's died, I'm fine with popping his cork. Was never really a fan of his anyway, but still... so, should he have lasted long enough to see Ume and Sakura born, or did he die while Shampoo was pregnant? Additionally, if he has come back from the grave as a wraith, just how 'tangible' is he? Completely unable to interact with the physical world, to the point where the Saotomes and Hibiki-Tendos have no idea that he exists? Can be seen, but can't touch the physical world (ala Rimmer from Red Dwarf)? Or is visible and corporeal when he wants to be?

Hmm... it's something of a trope that Genma & Nodoka's reunion results in a much younger sibling (sister, usually) for Ranma... but it might be a little hard to justify. They are in their late-30's/mid-40's after all. But, if they do have a kid or two, I don't think Genma would take them on a training trip like he did Ranma; there's no Tendo arrangement to uphold, and he'd probably consider himself either too old to go on the road again like that or that he's already "done" the trip with how Ranma has turned out.

It was more an idle comment than anything, but thanks for the input on the house layout.

[Spokavriel]

It would be more living in Shampoo's shoes than Ranma's but given that they would be tribe members no matter how you slice it the situation is possible that way and still has potential for comedy.

I don't even know if there would be Matriarch duties but she is still the Matriarch of an Amazon family and as such an Honored Elder. If her family is no longer living as part of the tribe residing in the mountains that doesn't mean her status as an Amazon Elder is changed.

I think people may have started to think of it as the Amazon Dojo. Think about it with this being the only place in Nerima out side of the Cat Cafe that has Joketsuzoku and really the dojo where they are why wouldn't it get an association?

I don't know how having Happosai around could be accommodated in a one shot not with how much discovery is going to be needed introducing the past lives to the new ones and all the other changes in Nerima. And I personally got tired of his antics finding them old just watching through the series before getting into watching the Movies or OVA's. If he is alive I hope he's at the Saotome (Genma's) residence. He would be the last pupil of the master with any spirit that isn't openly defiant.

How about Kodachi is the head of Women's Studies at Furinkan. That would give her Girls PE, Family planning, Home EC, and naturally give her authority over girls clubs including the Rythmic Gymnastics one. While that's allot of courses given all the grades I've heard of single teachers being stuck with worse work loads and Furinkan doesn't seem like a school that would be able to keep a large teaching staff.

A Traditional Wraith meaning before Tolkien used the term was just something twisted and writhing. Kinda like seaweed or smoke from an incense burner. He could still be alive but not have anything people would consider life beyond breathing. He would have survived long enough for Kasumi to marry and discover the problems of her being wife of a Hibiki at the very least so that the living situation can be secured. Would all that have been sorted out before the Phlacerties would have to be used? Would the curses even be cured by then?

Without Soun at least being a presence of sadness and maybe people feeling like they are being hit by a deluge of tears around his manifestation it would be pointless for him to even be a shade haunting the tea room.

Maybe Cologne could have given Nodoka some Amazon secrets. After all she is sort of a grand-daughter in law through Ranma. And some how Cologne has a Teenage Great grand daughter being 300 Someone in there had to have kids long after average menopause if not many someones. It is also proven that males are technically fertile their whole life. I looked for the study but it's been too long Harvard's Medical studies site suggests looking it up in hard copy.

There may not be a Tendo engagement but in a real way Training is Genma's life. Even when he was spending most of his time playing games with Soun he was less alive and active when he couldn't spar with the boy. Even when Ranma could beat him he had to create the Cradle of Hell so he could still have a way to win and prove to himself he could still learn/train.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I was more curious than anything about Happosai; I agree that there's no real place for him, so I'm fine with leaving the question of his survival unanswered.

I... don't really follow what you're saying about Cologne. Is she living in the dojo, or has she gone back to China?

Kodachi heading the Women's Studies sounds good. And it means "Akane" and "Nabiki" won't be able to escape her, no matter what classes that they have.

I'm sorry, but I'm not really following what you're saying about Soun. Could you clarify, please? I mean, I get that you're describing what a wraith is, more or less, but not why.

The "Amazon Dojo" sounds like a fine name to me. Hmm... perhaps the employment for the families are: Ranma, Ryoga (when he's there) and possibly Genma teach students, and Shampoo and Kasumi run the Nekohanten? This is a generalization, of course; Shampoo probably helps Ranma teach when she has the time, Ranma might even get called in to serve as a chef on occasion (he is actually a very good cook; he just doesn't like to reveal it), and Ranma & Ryoga both probably hire themselves out for various odd jobs when the classes are slim.

Good point about Cologne and Nodoka, and given Genma's displayed ki levels, it's quite possible that he has a longer lifespan as well (he just doesn't have the power/didn't acquire it early enough to preserve his youth the way Ranma & Shampoo's is doing). So, with that in mind... really, what would you recommend? Let them have a child or two in their old age? Or have it that Nodoka focuses her attention on her grandchildren?

A very good point, but given that his son is now old enough and skilled enough to give him an ass-whupping whenever he pleases (that Hell's Cradle move was really a once-off trick, and Ranma has *got* to have learned more Amazon techniques since marrying Shampooo), doesn't Genma have grounds to claim that he's "earned a retirement", which means he can stay at home and train his new child (or fob them off on their brother and their sister-in-law) rather than wandering the highways and byways of Japan? Not to mention that I don't think Nodoka would let him take *another* such training trip, especially when, as mentioned before, her new offspring has an elder brother, a sister-in-law, and even a 'nanna-in-law' who could contribute to its training.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Sorry to split this into two posts, but thought it would be easier than making one huge block of text. In light of your comments/qeuries about the timeline of "The Accident", I thought I'd put together such a timeline.

-Gosunkugi tries to eliminate Ranma with a summoning spell concealed within the family dinner; Akane's cooking. Said mutant attacks everyone indiscriminantly and mortally wounds Akane and Nabiki before being destroyed.

-Cologne steps forward to offer the usage of a pair of phylacteries to try and help the Tendo girls recover.

-Time passes while the soulless bodies lie in the hospital. Shampoo is expressly ordered by Cologne not to push herself towards Ranma during this time (which would make him despise her), but whether or not Ukyo would act the same way of her own volition escapes me. During this time, Kasumi and Ryoga begin leaning on each other for mutual support/comfort, as both of their loved ones are lying on the brink of death.

-The plan fails and Akane & Nabiki's bodies die. They are cremated and buried with their mother; before the other members of the Tendo household can go insane with grief, Cologne, somewhat relucantly (for reasons brought up by Mike Koos), reveals that the phylacteries can be used to reincarnate the girls. Soun & Genma decide that Ranma will marry Kasumi, the last surviving Tendo (and thus fulfil Soun & Genma's original plan), and they will become the parents to Akane and Nabiki's reincarnations.

-Cologne tells them that at least 6 weeks must go past between the funeral and the wedding; though a primary factor is gathering the reagents/components for the "transferral" ritual, there's also the practical purpose of stilling prying tongues. She insists that Ranma be cured of his Jusenkyo curse first, claiming that mixing the magics of his curse and those invoked by the ritual could have disasterous side-effects; naturally, she also provides cures for Genma and Shampoo as well. If Ryoga was cured, then it was probably given to him as a bribe to try and keep him from interfering.

-While the time passes, Ranma resigns himself, but, still as clumsy around girls as ever, chooses to avoid Kasumi out of respect for her feelings. Kasumi, naturally, turns to her friend Ryoga for support in this time; somewhat understandably, feelings bloom. Ranma & Ukyo probably turn away from each other during this time; Ukyo is affronted by Ranma's insistence that he has to marry Kasumi for this reason, and may well consider the actual goal of the plan to be madness/wrong. It's possible that Shampoo begins establishing the same sort of relationship that Ryoga established with Kasumi, but I'm not sure.

-The ritual is held as part of a small, private ceremony; only the Saotomes, Tendos and Amazons are in attendance, though Ryoga is possibly there as well and Mousse was sent away, just in case. Everything seems to be going as planned... until Kasumi reveals that she just can't go through with it; she's in love with Ryoga, and even for her sisters she can't go through with a loveless marriage. Two further, but not neccessarily cumulative, possibilities are that Ranma, upon hearing this, declares that he won't press her, and/or it turning out that Kasumi actually gave her virginity to Ryoga and she's now useless for the ritual- she's already pregnant. Anyway, with Kasumi refusing to do it, things are in ruins- until Shampoo steps forward and offers to be the mother instead.

-Any claims that this was her intention all along are sharply rebuked, with her, among other things, pointing out that she wanted to take Ranma away from Akane, not agree to share him with her. I'm not sure what would finally persuade them to agree to it, but the fact she's the only option they have left may play a part in things. Anyway, the ritual happens, Ranma & Shampoo are wed, and that night sees them conceive twin girls; Sakura and Ume.

Does any of this make any sense at all? I'm not sure what a post-birth timeline would look like though... do you have any thoughts?

[Spokavriel]

On the Soun thing I was just trying to clarify and state more options instead of making the decision for you. At the bare minimum if he is around at all then he should be noticeable by some sorts of sensations. If he is still alive he would be less healthy looking than Betty, Tofu's Skeleton. Just the way he is all through cannon is proof he does not handle grief well.

I would like Cologne to be there at the Dojo. Or maybe even still living in the Restaurant to give the kids some space. She might even have invited Shampoo's cousins to help expand the business. Ling Ling and Lung Lung. All I was saying specifically about Cologne is that no matter where she is she is still an Amazon Elder. If that has anything to do with politics or not doesn't really matter and isn't really said. And could you imagine Cologne teaching the beginners classes at the Dojo for kids who are not in Live in schools? While Genma could in theory do that I have trouble with stories that trust him with kids beyond being a big living panda/teddy bed for them.

We didn't cover anything to do with Moose in all of this. No matter how it goes he is a question that has to be thought of if not solved just as much as the curses.

I think the Saotome family should have more children. Mostly because after taking a long hard look at Genma he's not ready to retire. Sure he can get drunk enough to accept it with Soun but he's more likely to hit a second childhood and never settle down again than ever have a true retirement.

Edit: The time line could use a little more work. Especially on the matters of Ukyo and Moose. There just isn't enough support to keep them out of it. I think having Ukyo be ignorant of the tragedy and having a major gaffe closely after the sisters bodies die may be enough of a wedge to chip her out of the picture permanently. Think about it. If the day after they die she ends up verbally assaulting the Uncute Fiancee and Nabiki maybe even some snide remark about maybe getting kidnapped or having the Yakuza finally get upset with Nabs working their turf. There are lots of ways to get nasty about it.