Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

[Comartemis]

Bardiche's voice makes me think of Alfred from the new Batman movies for some reason. I don't think they're going to replace Donna, though; if they'd said anything about it, I think AS would be talking about it, most likely in less-than-flattering terms.

[Neko-]

You may commence squealing like a hoard of fangirls.

*tries to squeal, but fails miserably due to his voice not being equipped for squealing*

[Uldihaa]

You know, I just had a rather odd thought. We know that the Knights have been the guardians of the Book of the Night Sky for a very long time. That lead me to wonder if they might have actually lived during the time before it was created; perhaps they were the guardians of the Book's creator. Perhaps they volunteered to be absorbed by the Book to create the Guardian Knight System?

What do you guys think?

[Nekomata-sensei]

My guess is the guardian knights were actually based on real magical soldiers, or possibly enemies of the creator of the book. Technically they are really more of a cross between unison devices and familiars, with the book of darkness using more deeply stolen linker cores and skill sets that are retained despite reincarnations of the book when a master dies. The original master may have had some way they sought to achieve immortality through a similar reincarnation system, but was somehow permanently killed, so the book started selecting new masters at random who had the closest magical signatures it could detect to the original master. One of those erased part of the memory power of the knights and messed up the defense program to create the Book of Darkness out of the Tome of the Night Sky either by accident or because of some insidious plot or something.

The person Signum was based on actually possessed a unison device before being integrated into the book of darkness, one who somehow got a similar reincarnation power or perhaps had one to begin with but loses her memories in reincarnation, Agito, and has her reincarnation effect linked to Signum, thus when the Book of Darkness reincarnates she does too, not re-forming until the Knights are released. Agito wasn't included in the book to prevent Signum's power from rivaling that of the master, and because the other 3 were more valuable and more than them would be too much power drain on the master to maintain their existence, or perhaps due to some incompatibility due to being a unison device herself.

This is my best guess based on comments through the series and Agito's nature and connection to Signum. It also makes for some interesting fanfiction potential if you have the Guardian Knights meet reincarnations of those they were based off of. Perhaps you could have a crossover with Ranma as the reincarnation of the one Vita is based off of, and the red hair and shorter stature in girl form came from the lingering connection to that past life, since Herb seems to have similar stature and hair colors in both forms, and it could also be why Ranma so easily figured out the use of the ascension staffs against Saffron. Perhaps you could have the battle with Saffron cause a dimensional disturbance with Vita's magical signature detected around it, and Vita is being blamed for it because she was on a personal vacation at the time and has no alibi, nobody knew where she was, plus the energy signature matches hers exactly, which shouldn't normally happen. Her friends believe her that she is innocent and investigate, discovering Ranma, who winds up being forced before a dimensional court only for them to let him/her off since Ranma had no clue about magic or the damage that could have been done if Ranma had let loose a little more with the artifacts and destruction of Saffron. Then they could figure out about Ranma being the reincarnation of the one Vita is based on by having something happen, like a shared flashback and unlocking of some memories when Ranma and Vita touch or something, or Ranma absorbing Vita when the touch as if she was his own linker core, and the troubles that ensue with their conflicting personalities integrating...

[Comartemis]

I doubt that the knights were around when the Book was created; it is a Lost Logia, remember, and therefore has probably been around since before Al Hazard bit the dirt.

At the very least, Signum and the Wolkenritter identify themselves as Belkan Knights, use Ancient Belkan magic and Armed Devices, and Reinforce is a Unison Device, which we know the Belkans originally created. My guess is that the book survived the fall of Al Hazard and reincarnated itself around the multiverse over several hundred years until someone in the Belkan Royal Family came into possession of it and temporarily disabled the reincarnation system. The book turns into a treasure of the Imperial Family, used by several generations of Kaisers, until someone within the court sabotages the book, causing it to consume the Kaiser, her device (Reinforce), and several of the Kaiser's bodyguards (the Wolkenritter) before going on a rampage and destroying Belka. The corrupted defense program reactivates the reincarnation system and the Tome of the Night Sky turns into the Book of Darkness as we saw it in A's.

[Heaven's Deamon]

Mind if I add my own idea for it?

What I was thinking is that a Belkan could have taken a "pre-Belkan" data base, with systems they didn't fully understand, added a Unison device to act as the administrator, and placed it in a book to make the Tome of Night Sky. Then an apprentice, or some such messes with it and turns it into the Tome of Darkness. If the User prior to that were someone who created Unison devices and were a friend of the "real" Signum, then they could have been making Agito as a gift for her prior to that.

[Uldihaa]

I doubt that the knights were around when the Book was created; it is a Lost Logia, remember, and therefore has probably been around since before Al Hazard bit the dirt.

Do we know that for sure though? Just because it's classified as Lost Logia doesn't mean it was made by the people of Alhazard. From what I understand, there are actually many civilizations that created dangerous technomagical items (and those items played a part in that civilization's destruction) and that the TSAB classifies all of them as Lost Logia (pretty sure this is referenced in the manga).



Now on to my next odd thought: Since Vivio is a clone of the Belkan Saint-King, would she naturally be more inclined toward Belkan-style magic?

[Comartemis]

Now on to my next odd thought: Since Vivio is a clone of the Belkan Saint-King, would she naturally be more inclined toward Belkan-style magic?

I would think so, though considering her mother is a powerful Mid mage, I'd be more inclined to paint her as a natural Mage Knight, a master of both Mid and Belka once she starts training as a combat mage. The Saint's Armor makes her an almost ideal tank, being naturally immune to magical energies (and physical damage too, I think), so she'd make a pretty good berserker. She could still be brought down by things like paralytic agents, poisons, binding spells, and disorienting effects, but straight-up combat magic is largely useless against her.

[Uldihaa]

The Saint's Armor makes her an almost ideal tank, being naturally immune to magical energies (and physical damage too, I think), so she'd make a pretty good berserker. She could still be brought down by things like paralytic agents, poisons, binding spells, and disorienting effects, but straight-up combat magic is largely useless against her.

Does she still have access to that though? I was always under the impression that it was the result of her heritage and the Relic that was bonded to her (and possibly enhanced by being in the Throne Room of the Saint's Cradle).

[Comartemis]

Remember when Vivio was first discovered by RF6 and the Cyborgs tried to reclaim her? Deici didn't hesitate to open fire on the chopper even with Vivio inside; Quattro said something to the effect of "if that's really the key, you won't be able to hurt it". The usage of Vivio's relic seems to amplify her powers to an extraordinary degree, but the Saint's Armor is a genetic trait, not something she inherited from the relic.

[Frog]

I feel like sharing an awesome Nanoha doujin find with you guys. It's called "Betrayers", drawn by Himura Kiseki's circle, of Archer-ko fame.

Here's the cover: http://www.sentrygun.com/ascension/1219449049411.jpg

Here's the doujin: http://www.mediafire.com/?gztdmiwddrr

The doujin is raw, but once a translation is made, I'll repost here, if anybody is interested.

The art is nothing short of awesome. The concept itself, well, suffice to say that this is one of those rare doujins that's given me goosebumps. And raw at that. Not very many translated manga have managed that.

I'm not so bitter about there not being Sword Dancers 3 this Comiket anymore. Here's hoping we get Betrayers 2 the next one!

[Comartemis]

And here I was hoping to beat you to that one. Oh well, I've got a story synopsis to tide you lot over until we get a translation:

Following the Jail Scagglietti Incident, mass-based weapons begin to spring up in the hands of terrorist groups all across the multiverse, including AMF technology, and the TSAB is hard-pressed to suppress this surge. Tragically, Battalion 108 is almost completely wiped out in a skirmish with one such group, and Genya Nakajima is among the casualties.

Driven by her desire to protect the peace and justice of the TSAB against this threat, Hayate does the unthinkable and begins driving for the reinstitution of mass-based weapons and a Combat Cyborg army into the bureau's forces as a counter to the weapons and tactics arrayed against them. When the high council prepares to veto the allowance of mass weapons, Hayate stages a military coup, placing Gil Graham at the head of the TSAB and freeing Jail from prison.

Fate gains knowledge of Hayate's plans ahead of time and calls on everyone who ever served under her command to get out while the getting's good, and Caro, Erio, Shari, and Subaru answer her call. The new government labels these forces as rebels and orders their eradication.

It is worth noting that Hayate really does have the bureau's best interests at heart; the mass weapons route vs idealistic magic route is supposed to reflect an ongoing debate regarding Japan's disarmament agreement back in WWII.

The doujin opens on a battlefield as Hayate's combat cyborgs do battle with Fate's rebels. Nanoha appears among Hayate's troups and challenges Fate, who responds to Nanoha's challenge with a line somewhere along the lines of "Save your breath, tell me your reasons after I've beaten you!" Nanoha completely whips Fate's rear, but Caro, Erio and Fried take up the slack. Nanoha grades them, commenting on Erio's excellent timing, but a well-placed spell devastates the battlefield and puts all four rebels down for the count. It seems Nanoha's befriending skills have proven too powerful for our heroes.... until...

Hello Captain. I think you need to cool your head.

...Subaru and Mach Caliber make their entrances. Cue an extra-large helping of master-student beatdown and another Crowning Moment of Awesome for Mach Caliber.

In the aftermath of the battle, Chrono and Carim Gracia of the Saint Church make their appearances. Chrono, having made recordings of the battle, forwards proof of the new government's doings across the width and breadth of the TSAB, most of which is unaware of the changes Hayate has instigated. The message is followed by the announcement of another new nation from the ruins of the TSAB, the Saint's Union. Mass defections to this new state occur across the bureau; the people have spoken against the mass weapons, and Hayate's plan has failed.

...but as it turns out, Hayate had always intended to fail in her coup. Her support for mass-based weapons was a ploy to draw out and expose those responsible for the propagation of mass weapons and those who supported them; manufacturers, smugglers, etc. By forever staining hers and Nanoha's names as BetrayerS to the TSAB and the ideals it holds to be sacred, she has in fact assured the survival of everything the TSA stands for.

But back on Chrono's flagship, there remains the question of what happens now... or to be specific, who is going to lead the Saint's Union....?

The last page has your answer.

[FOG3]

Question:
Is this respresentative of combat and this representative of max firepower given it appears to have involved a full magazine of cartridges? Is this representative of only using part of a magazine?

I keep reading about "nuclear" attacks so I'm wanting to check if this is all. One example, of why I would dare to ask if that was all, for reference.

[Comartemis]

Pretty much. There's a tendency among Nanoha fanboys--myself included--to overestimate the amount of power she actually has simply because she's probably the most combat-capable magical girl in anime history. Her "nuclear" attacks are closer to the level of destroying city blocks at best, but if you put Fate at ground level and had her swing a Jet Zamber in a 360 degree arc she could probably level quite a few buildings in very little time. Hayate can do more than that with her AoE spells, but she's (probably; we've never seen her use her full power before) not exactly a city-killer either.

[Neko-]

I hate FOG3 There he goes rekindling my interest in the series... And I still haven't seen any peep of that movie...