Naruto Manga Progression *Spoilers!*

[Siden]

On the other hand, what did surprise me is how insanely badass the First Hokage was. If we take this at face value... then he flat-out beat a perfected Mangekyo Sharingan and the Kyuubi. Simultaneously.

Knowing the author, it's probably true. Bleagh.
It is one thing for an insanely powerful person to come along once in a while, it can make for a good story arc (see: Herb, Saffron), but Naruto takes the DBZ path and keeps introducing progressively more powerful beings, many of whom seem to make the best of the best from before look like amatures. At the start we had the Fourth Hokage and the Kyuubi, the fastest man ever and a beast that it took a suicidal move and the Shinigami itself to put down. Then we have the Sannin and the Akatsuki, neither of which seems to top the first two at first, and the second of which does not seem to want to mess with the first. But of course, one time skip later and the Akatsuki are either dropping like flies or laying the smackdown on everyone and their dog while the Sannin either die by the hands of their own students or barely make an appearance. Then there's Sasuke, who in less than 3 years goes from "piss myself scared" of Orochimaru to going "WTFPWN!" on him. The suspence ended after the fight with Haku, sorta came back during the Chunin exam prelims, and never really came back fully till the final fight between Sasuke and Naruto in volume 26. And now into part two, while the plot has been interesting at times, it feels like the rest of things are going to stay bland until the final fights. Now if only Kishimoto would stop with this eye fetish of his It seems like anyone who's worth anything has some kind of freaky eye effect.

One question though with Madara... do any people have some sort of idea of why people think he acted as, well, jolly as he was while being Tobi? I wonder if it could honestly be due to a split personality he had or simply the fact that he was trying to keep attention away from other Akatsuki.

Maybe he's really Obito like everyone originally thought, but he's possesed by the immortal ghost of Madara! And it has driven him insane! Forget Sasuke, we need the Ghostbusters!

[claymade]

It is one thing for an insanely powerful person to come along once in a while, it can make for a good story arc (see: Herb, Saffron), but Naruto takes the DBZ path and keeps introducing progressively more powerful beings, many of whom seem to make the best of the best from before look like amatures.

Well, this is, y'know, the First Hokage, the guy who basically created the entire ninja world that exists in Naruto's present time. In representing a guy who's one of the most powerful ninja, not just of the current day, but of all history I think one really ought to expect a bit of a magnitude difference.

Then there's Sasuke, who in less than 3 years goes from "piss myself scared" of Orochimaru to going "WTFPWN!" on him.

Well, when you consider that Kishimoto, in the panel just before the fight started, showed Orochimaru spitting up blood, I take that as a pretty clear indication that Orry was not particularly at full strength.

(Not to mention that--like Itachi--had he actually been trying to kill Sasuke he quite probably could have anyway, even in that condition. He lost because he's so obsessed with getting the Sharingan that he can't seem to grasp that any form of attack against an Uchiha that involves anything resembling a freaking staring contest is usually a fundamentally moronic idea.)

Now if only Kishimoto would stop with this eye fetish of his It seems like anyone who's worth anything has some kind of freaky eye effect.

A bit ironic to find this in the self-same paragraph as the one complaining about how obscenely powerful the First Lord was...

Maybe he's really Obito like everyone originally thought, but he's possesed by the immortal ghost of Madara! And it has driven him insane! Forget Sasuke, we need the Ghostbusters!

Considering that...

A) Madara has still only ever shown us his left sharingan

B) He has conspicuously never shown us his present-face (while his past-face has been plainly shown)

C) That's exactly how the immortality technique has already been well-established to work, per Orochimaru

...I'm still suspecting that it might well still be Obito's body under there--in some way, shape or form.

[Jupiah]

Oh lordy, chapter 401 is a doozy. That was one hell of a way to reveal the truth about Itachi. The tension, the drama, the shock. This is why I love Naruto. What will Sasuke do now?

It's amazing how this incredibly shocking twist isn't really all that surprising when you think about it a bit. Back when we thought Itachi was a power-hungry psycho who wanted to steal his brother's Mangekyo Sharingan, I always wondered to myself "If he wants the Eternal Sharingan so bad, then why did he slaughter almost his entire clan? What if Sasuke dies, or never develops his Mangekyo? Wouldn't it smarter to leave most of the clan alive in order to increase the odds of one of them gaining a Mangekyo?"

Now we know why he did it. Itachi has suddenly become the most sympathetic villain/tragic hero EVER.

I find it very amusing how virtually half of all Naruto fanfiction (the ones that somehow redeem Itachi) are all kinda pointless now that we know that Itachi was a good guy all along.

I'm a bit confused about one point though: If, as Madara claims, Itachi let Sasuke kill him so that Sasuke could gain his own Mangekyo ("via the death of the person closest to you"), why didn't Itachi want him to know the truth about the Uchiha massacre? The way I see it, killing your most hated enemy (which is how Sasuke thought of him) wouldn't qualify to awaken the Mangekyo, but surely killing your beloved older brother, who spared your life against the village's orders and has been protecting you most of your life, would! If Sasuke hadn't learned the truth (which seems to be what Itachi wanted), Sasuke might not have gotten the Mangekyo (I'm assuming he does have it now).

Of course, we should still be a little wary of this info. Madara claims that Itachi just happened to be the only one to recognize him in the village, and convinced him to only kill the Uchiha. That just sounds a little too convenient. If Madara really is an "invincible immortal", why would he agree? How the heck did Itachi find him anyway? Clearly, Madara has a deeper game of his own going on.

[claymade]

I find it very amusing how virtually half of all Naruto fanfiction (the ones that somehow redeem Itachi) are all kinda pointless now that we know that Itachi was a good guy all along.

Heh heh heh... One of my first thoughts (as soon as Madara started talking about Itachi in that way) was Obi-wan Kenobi's quote: "I felt a great disturbance in the Force. As though millions of fanfic writers cried out in fury, as their fics were suddenly rendered completely AU."

See, this is why I prefer to write for fandoms where the canon is pretty much closed.

I'm a bit confused about one point though: If, as Madara claims, Itachi let Sasuke kill him so that Sasuke could gain his own Mangekyo ("via the death of the person closest to you"), why didn't Itachi want him to know the truth about the Uchiha massacre? The way I see it, killing your most hated enemy (which is how Sasuke thought of him) wouldn't qualify to awaken the Mangekyo, but surely killing your beloved older brother, who spared your life against the village's orders and has been protecting you most of your life, would! If Sasuke hadn't learned the truth (which seems to be what Itachi wanted), Sasuke might not have gotten the Mangekyo (I'm assuming he does have it now).

Well, he apparently had managed to develop the means to artificially activate the base set of eye techniques in Sasuke--the whole "tap" business--but more to the point, I think he was just expecting Sasuke to rip out his own eyes anyway, which is why he made sure to mention during the fight that that was the only way to stave off the blindness. I expect that that would have gotten him the perfected Mangekyo one way or the other.

Of course, we should still be a little wary of this info. Madara claims that Itachi just happened to be the only one to recognize him in the village, and convinced him to only kill the Uchiha. That just sounds a little too convenient. If Madara really is an "invincible immortal", why would he agree? How the heck did Itachi find him anyway? Clearly, Madara has a deeper game of his own going on.

Definitely. I don't for a moment believe that we have the whole story yet--there are too many obvious plot threads left dangling. It remains to be seen just how much of Madara's story is honest, and how much of it is self-serving.

Still, I found Madara's perspective to be very interesting as a character, so far. He doesn't seem to have the same aims as Itachi by any means, but at the same time, he sounds extremely sympathetic and honoring of Itachi nonetheless. What his game really is is definitely one of the biggest questions currently active in the manga.

Incidentally, for what it's worth, I was re-reading previous Itachi arcs to find all the foreshadowing, and I noticed that when discussing Shisui, the Uchiha they suspected Itachi of murdering, they made a point of mentioning that he was the greatest master of teleportation jutsu they had ever heard of. Coincidence? Red herring? Quite possibly, but it does ring a few bells nonetheless... Just more random speculation to bat around until Kishimoto finally plays some more of his cards...

[Yrael]

Oh lordy, chapter 401 is a doozy. That was one hell of a way to reveal the truth about Itachi. The tension, the drama, the shock. This is why I love Naruto. What will Sasuke do now?

It's amazing how this incredibly shocking twist isn't really all that surprising when you think about it a bit. Back when we thought Itachi was a power-hungry psycho who wanted to steal his brother's Mangekyo Sharingan, I always wondered to myself "If he wants the Eternal Sharingan so bad, then why did he slaughter almost his entire clan? What if Sasuke dies, or never develops his Mangekyo? Wouldn't it smarter to leave most of the clan alive in order to increase the odds of one of them gaining a Mangekyo?"

Now we know why he did it. Itachi has suddenly become the most sympathetic villain/tragic hero EVER.

I find it very amusing how virtually half of all Naruto fanfiction (the ones that somehow redeem Itachi) are all kinda pointless now that we know that Itachi was a good guy all along.

On that same thread though, it was a bit of deja vu for me since I've seen a large number of fanfics that were actually AU because of the way they presented Itachi, and are now in fact in-line with canon.

It'll be very interesting to see what Sasuke does at this point. Orochimaru is dead, as is his brother who was his life's goal. Does he go back to Konoha? Hunt down the rest of Akatsuki? Hunt down Naruto to have a final showdown?

It also brings up another plot point...what happens now if Naruto DOES manage to drag Sasuke back to Konoha? Though Naruto seems to think everything would be A-OK, I'm pretty sure Konoha would exectute him for treason after assuring he had some offspring.

[claymade]

It'll be very interesting to see what Sasuke does at this point. Orochimaru is dead, as is his brother who was his life's goal. Does he go back to Konoha? Hunt down the rest of Akatsuki? Hunt down Naruto to have a final showdown?

And if he does the latter-most, how does he play it? Perhaps a warped sort of attempt to atone for what happened with his brother--by replicating it with himself? Not that I think Naruto would stand for it, of course.

Or perhaps he'll just assume Orochimaru's place as Kage of Sound?

It also brings up another plot point...what happens now if Naruto DOES manage to drag Sasuke back to Konoha? Though Naruto seems to think everything would be A-OK, I'm pretty sure Konoha would exectute him for treason after assuring he had some offspring.

Not really the impression I got from the various discussions I can recall with Tsunade and Yamato... I'd have to go back and read them again to be sure, but they all seemed to be on the same page from what I can recall.

I mean, seriously, what's he done to them over and above what he'd already done at the time of the first mission--whose goal was explicitly to retrieve him? Beat up Naruto, (but left him alive) took training for two years under Konoha's greatest enemy... and then killed him.

[Jupiah]

Okay, chapter 402. Mostly happy-sappy memories of the good times with Itachi...

And then one hell of a shocking plot twist. It seems that Sasuke does indeed have the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, but he's definitely not going to be returning to the leaf anytime soon. How is Naruto going to deal with this?

[Yrael]

A nice chapter, though I'd be lying if I said the magical nuclear sharingan upgrade at the end didn't annoy the hell out of me.

Of course, I'm not sure how he hopes to bury the village with what he has at this point. Regardless of how powerful they are, they aren't going to be able to take an entire ninja village unless Sasuke assumes control of all of Orochimaru's old forces, which I'm guessing we'll probably see next chapter. We'll finally be switching back to Naruto as well, which is good.

[Shadell]

Pretty good memorial for Itachi.

Does anyone else think Madara did something to Sasuke off-camera? Of course it could just be pure manipulation along with the truth about Konoha...

[Jupiah]

Personally, I'm kind of annoyed by this decision of his. Yes, Sasuke has every right to be royally pissed off and then some at Konoha, but to go so far as planning to destroy it? That's pretty much just pissing all over the very reason that Itachi sacrificed his life and family for. I really hope Naruto can talk him out of this.

I don't think Sasuke's been manipulated (beyond verbally) by Madara, but he does seem to be very emotionally unstable right now. Hopefully, he'll reevaluate his decision after he's cooled off a bit.

[claymade]

I don't think Sasuke's been manipulated (beyond verbally) by Madara, but he does seem to be very emotionally unstable right now.

Yeah, that's putting it mildly.

Hopefully, he'll reevaluate his decision after he's cooled off a bit.

Well, considering the genre--and more to the point, considering the four hundred chapters of buildup we've had so far, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that any potential cooling off will happen only after he's fought Naruto one more time.

Personally, I'm kind of annoyed by this decision of his. Yes, Sasuke has every right to be royally pissed off and then some at Konoha, but to go so far as planning to destroy it? That's pretty much just pissing all over the very reason that Itachi sacrificed his life and family for.

Yeah. I think part of it is that--in addition to all that, as you say, Konoha really has done to him and his family--there's also the fact that if he doesn't have Konoha to use as a scapegoat to keep focusing the blame on for Itachi's death... well, that leaves just one other person.

And really, when you think about his life, revenge is pretty much all he knows at this point. It's been (except for a few bright points of light) the only lens through which he's seen the world for the past five or so years. So it's not at all surprising that he'd latch back onto it as his reaction to what he found out.

Which was, indeed, probably exactly what Madara was counting on.

What surprised me was that--implied by the positioning, at least--Madara seems to be signing on with Team Eagle in a long-term sense. I expected him to hang more toward the background, but he seems to be taking an active role...

I really hope Naruto can talk him out of this.

Well, we have a shonen hero's fervent promise that he will. It doesn't get too much better than that, plotwise.

[WG_Writer]

Let me see if I can understand Sasuke's logic jumps here... there are only 2 ways I can see this happening:

Itachi killed our family
I will take revenge on him
In the end he proved he was doing it for me
It was Konoha's fault I had to kill my brother
I will destroy Konoha


or


Itachi killed our family
I will take revenge on him
The rest of konoha ordered him to kill our family
I will destroy Konoha


personally I am leaning for #1 since its the kishi way.

The difference is #1 he is doing it for Itachi (ironic imo) and #2 he is doing it for himself.

[Jupiah]

I think Sasuke's anger is more over his brother's death than the rest of his family. If his family's death was the main cause of his rage, he'd probably be going after Madara, because he, you know, helped Itachi murder them.

[Yrael]

So, 403 was rather depressing on a number of fronts.

Not only did Kish more or less retcon the entire Uchia massacre, he did the same to Itachi's fight with Naruto as well. Now, we have a crying Itachi during the massacre, a not-scared-out-of-his-bloody-mind Sasuke who tries to back stab (literally) Itachi at the end, and a Naruto who has apparently been infected by the Uchiha disease after eating crow (again, literally). Judging by the fact that all Naruto did in this issue was mope around on his bed and generally act like a whiny emo bitch hint that the infection is already spreading rapidly.

[Jupiah]

So, Chapter 404.

"Tobi" finally reveals his true identity to Kisame simply by showing him his face (so Kisame somehow recognizes Madara? Just how old is Kisame anyway? Why won't they show us his face?)

Naruto learns of Jiraiya's death and meets Jiraiya's mentor, and apparently Naruto is the "Chosen One". This series just got 400% more cliched! I wonder if Naruto will learn Hermit-style Ninjutsu from Fukasaku now?

Hawk and Akatsuki are joining forces against Konoha, and we learn a bit more about the mysterious Bijuu. It seems they are literally the Naruto world's equivalent of nuclear weapons, and several of them were controlled by the First Hokage, who gave them away to other villages in an attempt to force peace through the threat of mutual destruction. Man, the First Hokage just gets more and more badass every time we learn something new about him.

Also, we learn that one more Jinchūriki survives, the container of the Eight-Tailed Beast. Hopefully, this person will play a more significant role in the story than the other seven. It really annoyed me that most of them were literally never shown, Akatsuki having apparently captured them offscreen. The few (non-Gaara and Naruto) containers that were shown (The two, three and four tails) were given almost no screen-time and their captures were completely glossed over. A serious waste of some good side-plots, in my opinion.

Finally, why the hell is Sasuke accepting Madara's help?! Madara helped murder his freakin' family! He should be trying to kill Madara almost as desperately as he did Itachi!