Naruto Manga Progression *Spoilers!*

[Shadell]

Can't stand him actually. Go Sasuke, massacre the annoying rapper wannabe. Really though, I hope he takes a beating before he wins.

[Yrael]

Besides, even if he doesn't last too long, he's cool---that much we can agree on. Let's just enjoy him while he lasts, even if it's only for another chapter or two.

*toasts to the awesome rapping, bitch-slapping, Killer Bee*

[Jupiah]

*Dodges pspinler's bat* Sorry, I get hit with that thing way too often as it is. Thinking too much about manga is practically a hobby to me.

It's just that the 8-tails fighting style is the most blatantly ridiculous one that's been shown so far in a manga that at least pretends to be realistic. Even so, I do hope he gives Sasuke a good fight. He's one of the more unique characters introduced so far.

The Narutopedia lists the 8-tails name as Kira Hachi. Does anyone know if this name is legit? Kira Hachi means "Killer Bee", so probably not, but then again, isn't Might Guy the literal translation of Maito Gai?

[pspinler]

in a manga that at least pretends to be realistic.

Pretends to be realistic??? Naruto? Are we talking about the same manga? IMHO Naruto is at least as fantastical as, for instance, Nanoha.

Setting aside for a moment the whole concept of chakra and jutsu, my biggest suspension of disbelief is having to call out the name of battle techniques in order to perform them (at least at beginning levels). I know, I know, it's a genre convention, but still, it's like reciting magic spells or something. Let's just give away what I'm doing, and while I'm at it, give my opponent a nice chance to interrupt me.

I figure if I can accept something blatantly silly like that, idiotic contortionist sword styles are the least of my worries.

Even so, I do hope he gives Sasuke a good fight. He's one of the more unique characters introduced so far.

True that.

-- Pat

[Yrael]

While I'm happy that Sasuke got his ass kicked by the eight-tails, is anyone else wondering why he didn't use the Magical Nuclear Sharingan(TM)?

[CRBWildcat]

No, not particularly.

[Jupiah]

Pretends to be realistic??? Naruto? Are we talking about the same manga? IMHO Naruto is at least as fantastical as, for instance, Nanoha.

Well, I did say that it pretends to be realistic. Not that it necessarily is. With the way that the series treats magic (aka chakra) in a pseudo-scientific way, with bloodlines and chakra coils and such, the series mostly succeeds at following the internal rules of its world in a consistent and logical way. Which is one of the reasons I like the series so much.

The whole calling your attacks thing doesn't really bother me that much. That trope is so utterly prevalent in manga that I just tune it out and pretend they're really just thinking it to themselves. Really, it's not even as bad in Naruto as in most other series. Not every ninja names their attacks, or names them every time.

Personally, what bugs me the most is the unexplained schizo technology in the series. The ninja of Konoha have access to video cameras, radio transmitter and medical equipment sufficiently advanced enough for people like Orochimaru to successfully perform genetic engineering, yet we're supposed to believe that they don't have guns or cars?

While I'm happy that Sasuke got his ass kicked by the eight-tails, is anyone else wondering why he didn't use the Magical Nuclear Sharingan(TM)?

He severely underestimated his opponent, and it nearly cost him his life. Which illustrates another reason why I like this series so much - power levels aren't everything. Tactics has as much to do with determining the outcome of a fight as the strength of the combatants does. Even if you have the godlike ultimate Sharingan, if you make a stupid mistake you can end up dead.

Of course, now that Sasuke's had a great big helping of humble pie, you know he's going to activate his Sharingan, and this fight is gonna escalate to a whole new level.

[EdenB]

Personally, what bugs me the most is the unexplained schizo technology in the series. The ninja of Konoha have access to video cameras, radio transmitter and medical equipment sufficiently advanced enough for people like Orochimaru to successfully perform genetic engineering, yet we're supposed to believe that they don't have guns or cars?

If I recall correctly (which I may not since it's been ages since I saw the movie), though it's probably not considered canon we did see a train and kunai launcher in the first movie along with various other stuff. Not a car or gun but somewhat similar in function.

It never really bothered me strangely, even though it doesn't make much sense. You can try explain it away with different theories but I always just ignore it.

[Jupiah]

Man, what's up with Sasuke? He keeps making newbish mistakes and getting his ass kicked. It's really getting kinda pathetic. What the heck happened to the ultimate Sharingan?

So the 8-tails beast is an ox with octopus tentacles. Anyone else think his design might have been inspired by Pantyhose Taro a little?

[Yrael]

Man, what's up with Sasuke? He keeps making newbish mistakes and getting his ass kicked. It's really getting kinda pathetic. What the heck happened to the ultimate Sharingan?

I'm just enjoying the Sasuke beating while it lasts. I was actually pretty surprised the new sharingan upgrade seemed so ineffective against him.

Though, I really hope that K has the group do the smart thing and retreat, instead of pulling something out of their collective asses to suddenly turn the battle around, as is his usual style.

So the 8-tails beast is an ox with octopus tentacles. Anyone else think his design might have been inspired by Pantyhose Taro a little?

Glad I'm not the only one who thought of that.

[CRBWildcat]

I'm just enjoying the Sasuke beating while it lasts. I was actually pretty surprised the new sharingan upgrade seemed so ineffective against him.

If there's anything I've learned from reading manga and fanfiction, it's that you'll never know what situations the author's going to write out.

...In this case, I'd originally thought the eight-tailed beast was an octopus (I'm sure a whole bunch of others did, too). Looks like I was only half right.

[Yrael]

Though, I really hope that K has the group do the smart thing and retreat, instead of pulling something out of their collective asses to suddenly turn the battle around, as is his usual style.

Judging from the last 2-3 issues, my precognitive abilities are truly a force to be reckoned with. Either that, or Kishimoto's predictability score just hit an all time high.

We also have it more or less confirmed at this point that Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are nothing more than clones their respective mentors. Instead of refining and adding some new unique abilities to each, we're instead given round two of super-strength medical miracle girl, snake fetish boy, and a black belt in Kermit-fu.

I'm rather fed up with the manga at this point, if it wasn't obvious.

[Jupiah]

[We also have it more or less confirmed at this point that Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are nothing more than clones their respective mentors. Instead of refining and adding some new unique abilities to each, we're instead given round two of super-strength medical miracle girl, snake fetish boy, and a black belt in Kermit-fu.

I can see what you mean for Naruto and Sakura, but Sasuke is hardly a clone of Orochimaru. He doesn't spend all his time performing immoral kinjutsu experiments on others, he hasn't modified his own body with such experiments and he doesn't steal people's bodies. He has created a bunch of unique techniques based off of the Chidori, and now that Itachi destroyed the cursed seal and killed Orochimaru (for good, hopefully), Sasuke can't summon snakes anymore. Plus, you know, Sharingan. Really, Sasuke's fighting style barely resembles Orochimaru's.

[Yrael]

I can see what you mean for Naruto and Sakura, but Sasuke is hardly a clone of Orochimaru. He doesn't spend all his time performing immoral kinjutsu experiments on others, he hasn't modified his own body with such experiments and he doesn't steal people's bodies. He has created a bunch of unique techniques based off of the Chidori, and now that Itachi destroyed the cursed seal and killed Orochimaru (for good, hopefully), Sasuke can't summon snakes anymore. Plus, you know, Sharingan. Really, Sasuke's fighting style barely resembles Orochimaru's.

I was mainly thinking of the fight against Itachi where he used a number of snake-based techniques.

However, the point is still valid from a different viewpoint - Orochimaru's goal was to learn all ninjitsu and destroy Konoha. Sasuke has already started towards the latter the goal, and and the former is well within his reach due to his Sharingan. Plus, we still have very little detail about what exactly Sasuke spent the last three years doing.

[claymade]

Man, what's up with Sasuke? He keeps making newbish mistakes and getting his ass kicked. It's really getting kinda pathetic. What the heck happened to the ultimate Sharingan?

Well, it's not like he could have actually used half of said "ultimate Sharingan" until he actually got desperate enough to completely give up on his actual goal. And with the latter's genjutsu immunity, the other half didn't work out so hot for him either.

You're quite right that in a straight-up deathmatch, Amaterasu would have been an absolute no-brainer to use way sooner than he did--especially when Killer Bee went and made himself such a huge target.

In this situation, though, the turning point of the fight was simply Sasuke making the shift of "all right, he's too powerful for me to possibly take alive... and in fact he's too powerful for us to even retreat, despite our best efforts... so I'm going to just kill him with my trump card instead so I can at least get my team out alive--and screw the mission."

We also have it more or less confirmed at this point that Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are nothing more than clones their respective mentors. Instead of refining and adding some new unique abilities to each...

Hmm? You mean you don't think Naruto's as-yet-undisclosed-idea-of-his-own, which the frog elder doesn't have the faintest clue about (and which attaining sage mode was basically a stepping-stone toward) will count as... well, pretty much exactly that...?

And besides. The symbolic point being made here isn't that they're clones of the previous generation--it's more than that. It's that they're the answer to the previous generations' failures. Jiraiya couldn't actually master sage mode... just like he couldn't find a solution to the war-torn state of the world, couldn't save his friend, couldn't get with his girl. Naruto will do all of the latter three, just like he's now already done the former.

One of the most touching lines in recent volumes, in fact, spoke directly to that theme: "I feel like your smile is my salvation."

It helps if you don't narrow your focus to just Jiraiya. Similarly, we have the as-yet-unspecified work regarding the Kyuubi that Jiraiya speculated that the Fourth Hokage meant for Naruto to bring to completion for him. And, in terms of the jutsu he learns, Naruto also completes a jutsu that the Fourth Hokage began developing, but was unable to bring to completion.

(I'm expecting something related to the First Hokage as well, as the weight of destiny pushes back past the Sannin to him and Madara, which appear to be the more fundamental, overarching type-figures for Naruto's conflict.)

Not to mention that, in terms of Naruto's diversity, his personal doppleganger-centric-style is still very much there. And the air-based jutsus he's developed. And his Kyuubi-based powers. And, yes, the stuff he's learned based on Jiraiya too. But "learns his mentor's most powerful techniques" does not a Jiraiya clone make by any stretch of the imagination, especially not someone with as many other stylistic influences as Naruto has.

But Pain's ass--now that, he will most likely kick whilst making very extensive use of Jiraiya's techniques.