Ranma 1/2 vs. YuYu Hakusho: Spiritual Prowess

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Apologies for the title, but I wasn't sure how best to convey what I was after. I've also only seen the first season of the uncut anime for YuYu Hakusho so far, so forgive me if I have the wrong details. Something I've been starting to contemplate is a crossover between Ranma 1/2 and YuYu Hakusho. However, before that, I would need to establish just how various Ranma 1/2 characters would compare to, not only the Spirit Detectives, but also the various mooks and monsters of YuYu Hakusho. Multi minds are better than one, so, I came here.

In both series, ki (or "spirit energy" as the dubbed YuYu Hakusho calls it, a catch-all phrase for both Reiki, or human ki, and Yoki, or yokai ki) can be used internally and externally, to empower one's self, to augment one's weapon, or just launched at enemies for damage. YuYu Hakusho, however, introduces two types of "spiritual level" that both determine one's ability with ki; Spiritual Strength covers either how much ki you have, how much ki you can exert, or both, while Spiritual Awareness covers how well you are able to interact with ki - this not only allows you to sense it (and thus react to ki attacks, realise a foe's spiritual strength level, and sense unseen foes), but determines also how much fine control you can exert over your ki. The two abilities are not synonymous and it's possible to be lower in one than in the other. For example, Kuwabara has much greater Spiritual Awareness than Yusuke, but has comparatively low Spiritual Strength. This means he lacks the raw punch to his ki attacks, but he is able to pull off moves like the Spirit Sword, where he generates a blade of pure ki to do his fighting with.

What I'm basically trying to figure out is the likely "levels" of Spiritual Strength and Spiritual Awareness that various Ranma 1/2 characters have. Any and all input desireable here. For example, I have a feeling that Akane might actually have a pretty good Spiritual Awareness level - but why do I feel that way? I need to figure that out.

[Tornado Ninja Fan]

Spiritual Awareness might be the "danger sense" of the various martial artists. When they can feel that they are about to be attacked but cannot see the enemy yet.

Akane has demonstrated that ability when Kodachi attacked her in her bedroom. She was distracted when Ranma barged in hunting P-chan and ran out again. Kodachi tried to attack her from behind, but Akane blocked the hammer. Kodachi backed off and (ran away) decided she had enough fun that night.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

At its most basic, Spiritual Awareness does equate to the danger sense displayed by Akane, Ranma and Ryoga in Ranma 1/2. In sensory terms, it also covers things like being able to hear and/or see ghosts and invisible yokai, perceive and penetrate illusions, and general connection to the Spirit World. That's why, during the time that Yusuke is dead, he can only communicate with Kuwabara; he has the high Spiritual Awareness that lets him hear Yusuke, as well as being able to sense when his ghost is around and where it is.

Spirit Awareness also covers "ki finesse", which makes me think that Ranma might be fairly high in that regard, seeing as how he's pretty good at revising and developing his ki based techniques and analyzing the ki techniques of others. This doesn't neccessarily mean he can use them straight away after seeing them, or grant him protection against them (note the fight against Herb), but it does mean he can reverse-engineer them and figure out counters and adaptations with his famous speed at doing so.

[mondu_the_fat]

In many supernatural/horror stories, the spirtually sensitive are often possessed.

Akane has been possessed by spirits in a previous story (by the doll).

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

It's been a while since I watched Yu Yu Hakusho, so I don't know how that works there. I think a higher spiritual awareness does make it easier for ghosts and the like to possess people (Yusuke uses Kuwabara's body to communicate that he's technically still alive to his love interest)... or maybe it makes it easier for the human to resist being possesed. That might be spiritual strength, though.

[Fellow Sufferer]

Don't know anything about YuYu Hakusho, but if it's ghosts we're talking about, they are plenty visible in Ranma verse (or, perhaps, they are visible to Martial Artists?). There was a ghost who wanted Happosai to steal her bloomers, and there was a ghost who wanted Ranma do go on a date with him (but that one was visible to anyone, I think - there was some panic when they did go out). Then there are demons - demon from a scroll (low-quality panda %)), demon from a box ('evil' oni who could possess people), doll who possessed Akane, Maomlin (sp?)... I can't remember if there was invisible supernatural entities in Ranma at all. So either everyone in Nerima (at least) can see them due to, for example, unnaturally high spirituality or something, or they are simply visible to a naked eye.

Hell, I don't know what those Spiritual Detectives do, but if they can be described as someone who deals with ghosts' troubles or troubles caused by ghosts, then Ranma certainly qualify as one.

[three headed dog]

The ghosts/spirits in the ranmaverse have quite a few abilities. The one who wanted her bloomers stolen could place curses and change paper panties to look and feel like real ones. They can possess people, use spiritual fire, are capable of going invisible (Ghost cat went invisible for a bit), the cherry tree spirit created a shield, etc.

[toushin]

the safest bet would be to have ki and reiki as two seperate things. in fact even in the saint beast saga of yu yu hakusho they are refered as different forms of energy. suzuka was horrified that yusuke was converting his life force into spirit energy. ki is your life force and spirit energy is the power of your soul. also spirit energy seems to be very dangerous to the body if you over stress it (sort of like how goku's kaio-ken worked in dragonball z) if your body is not strong enough to handle the amount of power spirit ki produces then it will start to break down. in the manga for about two weeks after the saint beast arc yuske and kuwabara could barly move. basically i think that the best way to go is to say that the charecters of ranma have reached a level where the difference between the two energies is negligable. in the manga the spirits and curses were mostly legends why they did happen no one really know why they were happening. ranma and the others had enough power and control over their ki that they could see the ghost, where others could only see them if they materialized. another thing is that the demons that ranma usually came across were rather weak in comparison. the love tree demon ran the moment ranma pulled out an ax. while the oni was more annoying then dangerous. just go at it the way you would do a dragon ball z crossover yusuke and kuwabara are brawlers in terms of combat it would be a joke to say they could even touch ranma, but they do have him beat in terms of raw power if not strength (ranma has shown some amazing feats of strength throughout the series.)

[claymade]

yusuke and kuwabara are brawlers in terms of combat it would be a joke to say they could even touch ranma

Brawlers? Maybe as their base, but they've also had formal training on top of that, what with Genkai and such. (And anyway, it's not like being a "brawler" means you don't know how to fight; Ryouga's easily more of a brawler than those two are, and he still manages to "touch" Ranma quite often. In general, it's not a good idea to sneer at fighting abilities simply because they're not learned in a dojo.)

In any case, to the original point: how their "spiritual strengths" compare depends on where in the series you have them intersect. Ranma's spiritual strength would indeed probably exceed an early-series Yusuke--he didn't have much but the Rei gun, at that point. But on the other hand, by the time you get to the Dark Tournament and beyond, YYH starts escalating into crazy levels of power that Ranma can't even begin to scratch. When you get into stuff like Yusuke and Younger Toguro obliterating whole swaths of demons with no direct attacks at all, just by standing in the same freaking stadium with them while running their ambient battle auras at something approaching full power... well, comparison gets a little silly, at that point. (And then Yusuke goes and unlocks his demon heritage... oy vey.)

So, yeah, basically I'd suggest going through and picking your time and place to jump in, since there's a whole gradient to chose from. Actually, a good spot to have them meet might be when they first go to Genkai for training, especially since that's something Ranma would likely be interested in as well. And if Genkai takes an interest in him too, you could use that mechanism to avoid having him get left behind as things escalate.

(But then, of course, I've no idea what your overall plot is to begin with, so that could be completely unworkable. Just what occurred to me, in passing.)

[mondu_the_fat]

the safest bet would be to have ki and reiki as two seperate things.

Eh. Whenever I see fics that try to differentiate energy systems it makes me want to hurl, especially when it goes into detail. Invariably, Ranma somehow manages to master the new form of energy and trounces everyone in the cast. chi vs chakra in naruto/Ranma fics is a particular offender.

[Reika]

on the other hand, spirits and ghosts in yuyu hakusho still have spirit energy (like the last manga part when yusuke and his group leave their body behind)
how a dead could stil have ki which is life energy ?

I'm of those that think ki and reiki are different because of this little detail ^^

[bissek]

Life Energy and Spirit Energy are explicitly stated to be different in YYH. The main example is in the Spirit Beast arc, when Yusuke runs out of Spirit Energy and defeats Suzaku by converting some of his Life Energy into Spirit Energy to power one final Shotgun. A feat that could have been lethal had the rest of the Tantei not shown up shortly after the battle ended.

[toushin]

I didn’t mean that he couldn’t fight I was just comparing their general skill levels. Most of the fights that yusuke has won, has either been through luck, he’s gotten them to simply through punches, or he’s over powered them. The first to just wont happen in a fight with ranma, while the last could only be utilized a limited number of times. That’s a tink with ranma people don’t overpower ranma for very long. The exploding point, the shi shi hokudan, herb, saffron ranma has always found away to use their power against them.

The best example of what I’m trying to say is yusukes fight against Sensui throughout the whole fight yusuke couldn’t lay a finger on him literally nothing he did worked. The only way he was able to hit him was by doing something so random that their was no way sensui could predict it. i just don’t see how jumping in a lake doing a few laps then ripping off your shirt and wraping it around your opponent arm would work against someone who has had weapons pulled out of nowhere thrown at him can dodge blows in his sleep, and has survived mountains crumbling around them.

As for kuwabara that another thing entirely. There has been nothing in the series to suggest that he has any training on how to use a sword or even trained to properly use it so it would basically be like swinging an energy bat at ranma.

Yet I don’t think at his current level he could beat kurama or hiei he might be able to hold his own but beating them would require some work, but then again like claymade said it depends on what part of the series your starting with.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I want to thank folks for what's been posted here, it's given me some things to think on. I was just rewatching the first season (the only one I have, so far) of the uncut Yu Yu Hakusho anime (basically it covers the first Genkai Tournament arc and the Four Saint Beasts arc, plus various bits of "filler" like the introductions of Hiei and Kurama), and I started wondering: while I'm still interested in trying to figure out a rough "Spiritual Strength level" and "Spiritual Awareness" level for Ranma (or, indeed, any of his compatriots), does anyone have any opinions on how a... let's say post-anime Ranma (so that's to the Nodoka's Introduction storyline, plus the Reversal Jewel, Mrs Tendo's Cookbook, Tunnel of Lost Love, Ryugenzawa, Legendary Phoenix Egg, Vengeful Doll, Evil Oni and Hinako's Introduction stories, plus the fillers of Nekonron, Togenkyo and Vs. Natsume & Kurumi) would compare physically to a season 1 Yusuke or Kuwabari?

I was kind of thinking that, even at this low point, Yusuke and Kuwabari might actually have Ranma overpowered in terms of offensive strength, though Ranma might have the edge in finesse (most of their fighting style is basic brawling from their former status as punks and street toughs, while Ranma's been formally studying since he could walk) and be a little ahead in terms of endurance and healing rate. I'm not really sure, though; anyone have any opinions?

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

This idea just came to me on how to explain the differences between YuYu Hakusho's "spirit power" and Ranma 1/2's "ki". I'm not sure if it really works or not, which is why I came here; to see if it would make sense at all. This stemmed from my (possibly wrong) knowledge that, in Yu Yu Hakusho, there are four kinds of innate mystical energy; Spirit Energy, which is subdivided into Human Spirit Energy (Reiki) and Demon Spirit Energy (Yoki), Life Energy, and Body Energy (mentioned by Koenma when he explains to Yusuke how he's going to bring him back to life).

The thought I was thinking is roughly this. The type of ki that Ranma and associates use is actually a melding of Body Energy, Reiki and even Life Energy (the latter mostly ambient), blending all three types of power together into one multidinous power. This has its advantages over pure Spirit Energy usage like that of Yusuke or Kuwabara; it's this ability to control all three of their physical energies by thinking of them as one that allows Ranma to punch faster than the speed of sound, or lift multiple tons, or shrug off blows that can tear through steel. However, it also has its disadvantages; it's very hard for any "ki user" to specifically focus on their Reiki, which makes them weaker against demons and other spiritual threats - unless they've specifically trained on how to use their Reiki exclusively, their "ki attacks" are always... well, let's call it "polluted" with the other energies, diluting its effectiveness against spirit-beings and yokai. This does mean that, say, Ranma or Ryoga could actually punch a demon and make it hurt, but it would be less effective the more resiliant that demon is to physical energies, and their energy attacks like the Shishi Hokodan and Moko Takabisha are maybe a third (and probably closer to a tenth) of their usual strength against a demon.

In essence, Ranma and company would be "Stone Wall" types in the sort of battles that Yusuke and co get involved into. Because all three of their bodily energies are being controlled and directed, it's fairly hard to hurt them; both physical and spiritual "impacts" are blunted by the circulating powers, while the controlled life energy quickly infuses damaged areas and restores them. However, their offensive capabilities against any demon with real strength are going to be all but nonexistent, as they just can't concentrate their Reiki sufficiently to seriously hurt them.