Jusenkyo: Cure or not?

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Postby WG_Writer » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:54 pm

Knight of L-sama wrote:The rain was what tipped the scales as the instant was wearing off. Though most likely meant to symbolise Genma and Ranma's mood at discovering the instant stuff is only temporary.

I just figured that they stayed out so long even when it started raining, then it wore off (not due to the rain) and their disappointment surpast their desire to remain dry.
Storm trooper effect works against good guys as well.
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Postby lwf58 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:52 am

Something I've never, ever seen mentioned in these endless arguments about the curses and cures is something that makes a great deal of sense to me. We know as a fact that Drowned Man water will cure Ranma, Ryouga, Genma, and Mousse. That's because Rumiko Takahashi said it would in an interview. Where there is room for speculation is why.
My own theory on that is this: in order to provide a cure, the cursed water has to match the nature of the person using it. So if men use Drowned man water, it matches their original form and takes precedence over any other curses, cancelling them. If Shampoo got Drowned Girl water, she'd be cured (she doesn't get it, but not because she couldn't. Her curse is a punishment from the tribe.)
The fact that curses can mix is explained by looking at Pantyhose Taro. He doesn't touch Drowned Man water. He was dipped in a nonhuman spring, and chose another nonhuman spring to enhance it later. Therefor, as long as the springwater doesn't match the victim's original form, the curses are additive. I think it's reasonable to suppose that if the others ever got Drowned Man water and splashed him with it, Taro would lose his curses. Given that he likes them, though, I imagine he'd just head back to China and recurse himself.
Spring of Drowned Virtuous Man might provide a cure for men if they were virtuous to begin with, but probably wouldn't help any of the Ranma cast because none of them could be described as being particularly good people. Every single one of them, Ranma included, had strong character flaws that made them fall well short of sainthood. It might match their physical natures, but not their spiritual natures.
Just had another thought on the matter. A lot of fics propose that Ranma "cures" himself by using the Spring of Drowned Twins, and gets one male and one female version of himself. But if the springs are additive (except for the one that best matches the cursed person), then he wouldn't get a permanently male Ranma with a permanently female twin; he'd get a male twin who also had the Drowned Girl curse.
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Postby Neko- » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:44 pm

I think it's reasonable to suppose that if the others ever got Drowned Man water and splashed him with it, Taro would lose his curses. Given that he likes them, though, I imagine he'd just head back to China and recurse himself.

Just my two cents, but if I take your explanation of the curses (and yes... it sounds plausible), then getting the Drowned Man water would effectivly kill off all curses as it is a curse that takes precedence over the others.
That said, we can therefore assume that even if the body doesn't change visually, the curse is still there, just changes boy to boy over and over again.
So then that means that recursing oneself wouldn't work since the curse that provided the male-male switch which _is_ active, would overrule all existing (and thus new) curses.
Then again, taking logic to Jusenkyo is bound to be torpedoed along the way and sink you, preferably in the pool that least appeals to you :P
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Postby P.H. Wise » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:08 pm

Alathon wrote:Damn straight. This is one of tne of the more irritating "lets stick ranma as a girl" bogus plot devices. There was a fairly funny oneshot on ff.net that pointed this out.. wish I could find it.

Don't have any idea if this is the one you were referring to, but I did a fic on the subject a while back:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2485622/1/
Last edited by P.H. Wise on Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby P.H. Wise » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:09 pm

Though, technically, I think it may be biologically feasible for an embryo to attach itself to an intestine. I seem to recall some discussion about that in bio class like ten years ago.

Wouldn't it get digested? O_o
Last edited by P.H. Wise on Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Neko- » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:10 pm

FYI - Mind the double-quotes... It is frowned upon...
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Postby P.H. Wise » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:15 pm

Neko- wrote:FYI - Mind the double-quotes... It is frowned upon...
Rule G located at http://www.fukufics.com/viewtopic.php?t=351

whoops, fixed now
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Postby lwf58 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:34 pm

Neko- wrote:That said, we can therefore assume that even if the body doesn't change visually, the curse is still there, just changes boy to boy over and over again.
So then that means that recursing oneself wouldn't work since the curse that provided the male-male switch which _is_ active, would overrule all existing (and thus new) curses.

Well, Takahashi said it would be a cure, not simply stop them from becoming whatever they were originally cursed to become. So if we follow that line of thought, then the curse that matches the victim's nature cancels all curses, including itself. In other words, since a curse to become what you already are isn't really a curse, it would be negated by the paradox. That would leave the person open to being recursed if they fell into another spring.
Taking that a step farther, it would mean that if a guy fell into Drowned Man water accidentally, he wouldn't be cursed at all. However, given that the Pools of Sorrow are accursed as a whole, the chances of that happening are probably near zero. You'd never fall into a matching spring by accident.
Speaking of which... The idea that the Pools draw in victims deliberately is probably wrong too. The Nichieju and Musk both go there for their own reasons, and only the ones they want to be cursed end up that way. Falling into one is either completely by accident or deliberate on the part of the people who go there. But it's also notable that each person who does fall into one accidentally usually gets a curse that is the most inconvenient for that person. Ranma becomes a woman, the thing that causes him the worst problems down the line, especially when his mother shows up. Shampoo becomes the thing the guy she loves fears most. Ryouga, who prides himself on his strength and toughness, becomes a critter that is weak and helpless. Taro, though, becomes something he regards as useful, but the spring was chosen for him by his mother.
P.H. Wise wrote:Wouldn't it get digested? O_o

It attaches to the outside of the intestines, not the inside.
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Postby Knight of L-sama » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:17 pm

lwf58 wrote:Just had another thought on the matter. A lot of fics propose that Ranma "cures" himself by using the Spring of Drowned Twins, and gets one male and one female version of himself. But if the springs are additive (except for the one that best matches the cursed person), then he wouldn't get a permanently male Ranma with a permanently female twin; he'd get a male twin who also had the Drowned Girl curse.

Well that's one way to solve the fiancee dillema.
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Postby Drawde » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:54 pm

lwf58 wrote:Taro, though, becomes something he regards as useful, but the spring was chosen for him by his mother.

Actually, it was Happosai that cursed Taro. He didn't know about Jusenkyo when he went to wash the newborn Taro. Taro does like the curse though.
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Postby P.H. Wise » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:53 am

Drawde wrote:Actually, it was Happosai that cursed Taro. He didn't know about Jusenkyo when he went to wash the newborn Taro. Taro does like the curse though.

Taro also had his entire life to get used to it.
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Postby A.Nonymous » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:51 am

Drawde wrote:Actually, it was Happosai that cursed Taro. He didn't know about Jusenkyo when he went to wash the newborn Taro.

We only have Happi's word on that. And his word is suspect.
Happi had been in the area for a while, at least long enough to case the Amazons and grab some of their treasures. He also got on a first name basis with Cologne.
It's quite likely he DID know about the springs. It's his kind of cruelty. Though I would have thought he'd likely choose the spring of the drowned bimbo if he could find it.
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Postby A.Nonymous » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:19 am

lwf58 wrote:Speaking of which... The idea that the Pools draw in victims deliberately is probably wrong too. The Nichieju and Musk both go there for their own reasons, and only the ones they want to be cursed end up that way. Falling into one is either completely by accident or deliberate on the part of the people who go there. But it's also notable that each person who does fall into one accidentally usually gets a curse that is the most inconvenient for that person. Ranma becomes a woman, the thing that causes him the worst problems down the line, especially when his mother shows up. Shampoo becomes the thing the guy she loves fears most. Ryouga, who prides himself on his strength and toughness, becomes a critter that is weak and helpless.

Have you ever seen an wild pig? A boar is a creature of rage, and in no way is a helpless little thing.
Personally I go along with the "Takahashi chose the spring which matched the victim" school. Just look at the victems.
Genma is a creature of gluttony, and over and above being lazy a panda spends most of it's time eating. Bamboo is not very nutritious and pandas have to eat a lot of it.
When ducklings are born they imprint on the first thing they see. It's a standard biology experimant to have people wearing colored boots followed around by their own flock of baby ducklings. Mousse "imprinted" on Shampoo, and follows her around like a duckling.
Ryoga is basically a creature of rage, just like a boar.
Shampoo. She acts just like a housecat. Purring, rubbing up against Ranma, and spitting at any other females who move into her territory.
There have been endless fanfics dealing with weather or not Ranma is actually a girl inside. Or maybe he just has a twisted view of what a "girl" actually is thanks to Genma. My view is that Ranma feels that a "girl" is everything his father has been beating out of him over the years with abuse, both physical and mental. Girls get to eat ice cream. Girls stay home with their mothers. Girls can complain about their father's stupidity. Girls aren't "martial artists" and don't get pounded by their fathers each morning.
P.H. Wise wrote:Wouldn't it get digested? O_o

lwf58 wrote:It attaches to the outside of the intestines, not the inside.

It's called an ectopic pregnancy, and they DO happen...usually in the falopian tubes, but it can happen if the fingers on the end of the tube fumble the egg and it gets lost down among the visera...and a sperm finds it somehow...
And yes, they die... And there's NO WAY such a thing would cause problems 5 minutes after it happened. It would take weeks to become an issue.
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Postby lwf58 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:31 am

A.Nonymous wrote:Have you ever seen an wild pig? A boar is a creature of rage, and in no way is a helpless little thing.

Have you ever seen P-chan? Azusa Shiratori, who is fairly weak herself when off her ice skates, has no trouble capturing him and keeping him prisoner for extended lengths of time. Ryouga hates being with her. If he had the ability to get away from her, he would.
Ryouga isn't a wild boar. He's a piglet. Going by the way P-chan was drawn, my guess is that he's a pot-bellied piglet, which are usually black, or some combination of black and white. Pot-bellied pigs are kept as pets all over the world.
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Postby nav » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:34 am

While it is true that Azusa Shiratori had no trouble capturing P-Chan, she also had no trouble capturing Kuno. Also, when most people grab P-Chan, they do so by holding him by his bandana and off his feet where he has no leverage.
But, he can fight as a pig as evidenced by his bouncing attacks on Ranma when he slips into Akane's room to douse him with hot water.
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