Manga Ranma: The Good, the Bad & the Ugly

[Jupiah]

Ambushing someone, activating their curse, and chaining them up so they can act as some kind of trophy isnt deserving of an ugly rating?

It is pretty bad, but it's not Ugly because Ranma had a legitimate reason to do it. The previous night Ryoga had declared that he would "see to it that Ranma loses" the match against Kodachi, and then attempted to act on that boast, and they ended up fighting all night long. Even if he didn't succeed in stopping Ranma, the lack of sleep certainly handicapped her. If Ranma hadn't incapacited Ryoga somehow, he would undoubtedly have interfered in the match.

And correct me if Im wrong, but didnt Ranma use that "dishonourable jerk" as a bloody weapon when he was attacking Kodachi?

Im baffled, wouldnt you get kind annoyed if someone used you as a weapon?

Almost the first thing that happened in the match was that Ryoga ran around Ranma and tied her up with the chain, allowing Kodachi to slam a metal rod on her head. It was after that sabotage that Ranma used him as a weapon. Ryoga later almost caused Ranma to ring-out by clutching onto the pole when she tried to leap across the ring. Ryoga was actively trying to sabotage Ranma that entire fight, which is a pretty damn dishonorable thing to do.

[Necavit]

It was the skating duel where Ranma jumped Ryoga
Your talking about the Kodachi fight

Therefore how is Ranma justifyed in knocking him out?

Last exchange between them was Ryoga mocking him for the kiss. So Ranma ambushing him and using him as a human trophy seems low to me.

[Jupiah]

It was the skating duel where Ranma jumped Ryoga
Your talking about the Kodachi fight

Therefore how is Ranma justifyed in knocking him out?

Last exchange between them was Ryoga mocking him for the kiss. So Ryoga ambushing him and using him as a human trophy seems low to me.

Crap, you're right. I got the Rythmic Gymnastics and Martial Arts Skating matches mixed up. I feel stupid. Sorry, I'm a litle tired right now.

I guess that one is an Ugly. I'll change it.

[Necavit]

Yea I had them mixed up too for a bit, but I was scanning the Manga to see
who stared the Ryoga and Ranma fight during the Kodachi fight.

Sweet, I helped get Ranma his first Ugly.

[three headed dog]

B: But takes it a bit too far when she insults Akane’s body.

Personally I'd rate this an E because I don't consider it to far. He did just sit and listen to them arguing about not wanting him and they were inadvertently insulting him (I'd be feeling like crap after listening to them if I was him). I count an insult as he's leaving as excusable.

B: Squashes Kodachi when he slams Akane’s door open and then trashes her room while chasing P-chan.
B: Beans Kodachi with a kettle and knocks her off the roof while still chasing P-chan… (Ranma really needs to learn to watch where he’s going)

I'd give these E's because Ranma did them entirely on accident. No ill intent and they don't qualify as negative or hostile actions/behaviors. Just inattention. I do agree he should watch where he is going more often though.

Ambushes Ryoga with water and chains the piggified martial artist to the prize trophy.

I agree that was pretty low but I wouldn't rate it as Ugly. He did have a legitament reason two actually: One P-chan was the prize, the prize had to be there to give to the winner, the whole fight started because Azusa stole Ryoga. The second reason is to prevent Ryoga from interfering in the battle.

[mondu_the_fat]

I'd give these E's because Ranma did them entirely on accident. No ill intent and they don't qualify as negative or hostile actions/behaviors. Just inattention.

I'd lump inattention (especially inattention to what affects others) as _clearly_ a negative value.

Excusable would have been Ranma trashing the room had Akane allowed Ranma to go after Ryoga.

On the other hand, hitting Kodachi is excusable, simply because he did not know she as there. In comparison, Ranma knew it was Akane's room when he chased Ryoga.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I gotta admit I agree with three headed dog: that first point, Ranma has just heard them dissing him, arguing about who has to take him and generally treating him like a piece of garbage. Firing a zinger back at Akane, even a tactless (if true) one like that, is quite understandable.

For the points with Kodachi, there was no way he could know she was behind the door, nor was there any reason he should expect there to be someone on the roof. Though, for smacking into the kettle, I wouldn't argue an E/B: he was focused on chasing Ryoga, but you'd have to be pretty careless not to notice her.

As for chaining P-chan to the trophy, I'd agree that's a B. It ain't nice, but he *is* the prize and he's already proven willing to interfere in a duel to try and sabotage Ranma once before, so there's an element of preventive measure there. Besides, given how Ryoga has behaved towards him, Ranma really doesn't owe him anything resembling nicety.

[TerraEpon]

There are a couple I wonder if you need at all...like...

E: Runs away crying after Mikado kisses her.

...this. I don't see how that's bad, it just IS. Why does it rate an E?

There's another two or three in there similarly too.


-Joshua

[Jupiah]

Personally I'd rate this an E because I don't consider it to far. He did just sit and listen to them arguing about not wanting him and they were inadvertently insulting him (I'd be feeling like crap after listening to them if I was him). I count an insult as he's leaving as excusable.

I can see your point, they were talking about him as if he were an object, and Akane kept hypocritacally calling him a pervert, so a parting insult would be excusable. I guess it's my personal bias speaking here, but I felt the "I'm better built to boot" line was a tad cruel. But since no one else seems to agree I'll change it to an E.

I'd give these E's because Ranma did them entirely on accident. No ill intent and they don't qualify as negative or hostile actions/behaviors. Just inattention. I do agree he should watch where he is going more often though.

I have to agree with mondu, inattention that hurts others is a negative trait. Most people wouldn't hesitate to mark down Mousse for running over two little kids on his bike because he wasn't wearing his glasses, or Ryoga for endangering Akane and dozens of other students when he's wildly tossing around bandanas. Why should Ranma be treated differently?

I agree that was pretty low but I wouldn't rate it as Ugly. He did have a legitament reason two actually: One P-chan was the prize, the prize had to be there to give to the winner, the whole fight started because Azusa stole Ryoga. The second reason is to prevent Ryoga from interfering in the battle.

The second point is legit, Ryoga has proven willing to interfere in his fights before. However, unlike the Kodachi match, Ryoga has shown little outward sign of planning to do so this time. He did challenge Ranma to a one-on-one skating match to determine Akane's partner, but he technically lost because he disapeared as soon as they stepped into the ice rink. Still, I agree that Ranma had reason to be suspicious of him. If Ranma had just locked him in a cage out of the way till it was over or something similar I would have left it a B.

As for the first point; P-chan may have been the prize, but he certainly never agreed to it. Forcing someone to be a prize pet animal is pretty damn degrading. As someone who has been forced to be a prize in a fight himself, Ranma knows how that feels, which makes his willingness to do it to others even worse.

...this. I don't see how that's bad, it just IS. Why does it rate an E?

There's another two or three in there similarly too

Good point, I'll remove it. What other ones did you feel were unnecessary?

[Necavit]

Edited my post, Jup already replied to the Ryoga as a prize thing.

I dont buy the preventive argument, Ranma just needed the prize so there could be a duel. But even so, would it be ok if Ranma made it clear he would interfere in a Ryoga fight with Mousse, and Ryoga locked him in a cage?

Bottom line was he didnt agree to it, and it was degrading to be made into a prize.

On another note, I'm glad your posting these slowly, gives time for debate, the other lists were to fast to nitpick.

[Jupiah]

After some thought, I also decided to edit the "B: Irresponsibly stays up all night fighting Ryoga, ensuring that she’ll be at a disadvantage during the match because she’s exhausted." mark to an E, as it doesn't seem like Ryoga was giving Ranma a choice in that fight, and he likely would have hounded Ranma all night if she refused.

[Edit]

On another note, I'm glad your posting these slowly, gives time for debate, the other lists were to fast to nitpick.

Well, technically I've been posting them as soon as I finish them. Reading through the manga while trying to discern Ranma's motivations for his actions between school and work takes awhile. But I'm glad people are enjoying debating about my lists!

[Crystal]

Vol. 3
B: Squashes Kodachi when he slams Akane’s door open and then trashes her room while chasing P-chan.
B: Beans Kodachi with a kettle and knocks her off the roof while still chasing P-chan… (Ranma really needs to learn to watch where he’s going)

It's excusable. He careless. But think about situation. Malefactor with criminal mind get in YOUR home and you unpremeditated beat him. You are guilty? You are evil? You must give reparations to him? I don't think so.

B: Insults Akane with his sexist attitude in the hallway.

It's all relatively. Somebody think it's sexist and somebody think it's not. Maybe we must look for sexist and discrimination in all that we do? For example. Girl like brunet but dislike blond (and - it's discrimination by hair color). Or one boy have two good friends one girl and one boy. And when he date his first friend (girl) his second friend (boy) talk what it's discrimination =). And what he must do? Date second friend (boy) or he will accusation in discrimination? Young boy helped aged man is it discrimination?
All people define for himself that they like or dislike, that they can do or cannot. You wanna take away this right?
In this situation Ranma don't want nobody be insulted and he don't do harm.
I think it's E.

[antimatterenergy]

I wasn't going to reply to this because I didn't care about the other good, bad, Ugly lists all that much and they are subjective. Since Ranma is my favorite character though I feel compelled to.

B: Insults Akane with his sexist attitude in the hallway.

I'd give this an E not because Ranma wasn't being sexist but for cultural reasons. In the same way Shampoo trying to kill Ranma is excusable because her culture is like that Japanese culture 15-20 years ago even more so than now is sexist (and it still is very sexist).

B: Acts rather immature when Akane brings her some hot water.

I'm not going to argue the rating but I dislike that you say acts immature. Ranma wasn't acting immature he is immature. Acting in my mind implies your generally mature but acting childish. Ranma is an immature 15 or 16 year old(depending on your interpretation of his age) and because of his upbringing he is socially and emotionally less mature than a regular 15-16 year old.

U [Edit]: Ambushes Ryoga with water and forces the piggified martial artist to be the prize by chaining him to the trophy.

I wasn't going to comment on this because it can be either U or B depending on interpretation until I saw "If Ranma had just locked him in a cage out of the way till it was over or something similar I would have left it a B". Ranma did not make Ryoga the prize Akane and Azusa did. Chaining him to the trophy is not worse than locking him in a cage.

[Necavit]

Weither or not someone takes offense from sexism is relative. But its still sexist.

And Im pretty sure Akane did not take it well, and Im pretty sure Ranma was well aware of what her reaction would be.

That was for Crystal, rest is for Anti

Yea Akane and Azusa did make him the prize but Ranma went out and captured him so he could act is one. So I dont quite understand your reasoning. I still cant understand why this would just be a bad. I guess im just confused on what justifys a U, bads seem to be mostly insults so do U's need to descend into baby eating?

Cause capturing someone against there will seems to be on a new level compared to calling someone a tomboy.

[Jupiah]

It's excusable. He careless. But think about situation. Malefactor with criminal mind get in YOUR home and you unpremeditated beat him. You are guilty? You are evil? You must give reparations to him? I don't think so.

You can't interpret Ranma's actions in that scene in view of his victim being a trasspassing assailant, however, because Ranma didn't know that. For all he knew (if he even noticed) he could have clobbered Akane's friend or even Akane herself.

It's all relatively. Somebody think it's sexist and somebody think it's not. Maybe we must look for sexist and discrimination in all that we do? For example. Girl like brunet but dislike blond (and - it's discrimination by hair color). Or one boy have two good friends one girl and one boy. And when he date his first friend (girl) his second friend (boy) talk what it's discrimination =). And what he must do? Date second friend (boy) or he will accusation in discrimination? Young boy helped aged man is it discrimination?

Discrimination that hurts other people is rather different than having personal preferences that don't, or making a decision involving another person based on their actual physical abilities. No one would blame a person for only dating people that match his/her sexual preference, and in the vast majority of cases of someone helping an elderly person, they are doing it because that person is weak, not soley because of their age. Helping an elderly person (unless they are in exceptionally good shape) isn't (hurtful) discrimination unless, say, you're ignoring a crippled or sickly person who obviously needs that help more. Having a hair color preference is harmless as well, although I must say that making decisions based entirely upon that preference is rather shallow.

All people define for himself that they like or dislike, that they can do or cannot. You wanna take away this right?
In this situation Ranma don't want nobody be insulted and he don't do harm.
I think it's E.

Whether Ranma was trying to insult Akane is debatable, but regardless, he did harm her. Not physically, but she was quite offended by his statement.

Let me ask you and antimatterenergy a question. Imagine that you meet someone who is very good at something you enjoy. It could be fighting, a game of some kind, a hobby, anything. Now imagine that you challenged this person to a competition involving this activity. How would you feel if that person replied "No way! You're a [insert your gender here]. It wouldn't be right for me to compete with you."

This person just completely disregarded any skill you have based on nothing but your gender. Wouldn't you be offended? Wouldn't you feel that this person is a jerk? Would you forgive this person if you knew that his/her family and friends all felt the same way, and therefore had influenced this person's feelings on the matter?

I'd give this an E not because Ranma wasn't being sexist but for cultural reasons. In the same way Shampoo trying to kill Ranma is excusable because her culture is like that Japanese culture 15-20 years ago even more so than now is sexist (and it still is very sexist).

This is where the subject gets blurry. I'm judging Ranma's actions from the point of view of your average modern young American, although I'm trying to make allowances for cultural differences. I think it's bad, but you have a good point about Ranma's entire culture being like that. Does anyone else think Ranma should be excused from sexist actions because his father and culture are sexist? Consider before you answer, that by this same logic, Shampoo would have to be excused from most of her murder attempts in the manga.

[Edit]Personally, I don't buy the "Everyone else I know does it too" defense. I think people should make their own decisions, and in this regard Ranma is even more culpable for his sexist beliefs than most men. He can turn into a girl. He knows from first hand experience how painful being on the receiving end of this kind of sexism can be.

I'm not going to argue the rating but I dislike that you say acts immature. Ranma wasn't acting immature he is immature. Acting in my mind implies your generally mature but acting childish. Ranma is an immature 15 or 16 year old(depending on your interpretation of his age) and because of his upbringing he is socially and emotionally less mature than a regular 15-16 year old.

Ranma's actions in that scene were immature even for a 10 year old. Let's go over that scene again:

Akane: Just how dumb can you be? Jumping in the pool of your own free will!
Ranma: Shut up! *sticks out and wags tongue at Akane* NYAAH! NYAAH!
Akane: Then maybe I'll just throw away this... *reveals kettle* ...hot water!
Ranma: NO!!! Meanie! Meanie!

Seriously, that's toddler-level maturity. It's embarassing.

I wasn't going to comment on this because it can be either U or B depending on interpretation until I saw "If Ranma had just locked him in a cage out of the way till it was over or something similar I would have left it a B". Ranma did not make Ryoga the prize Akane and Azusa did.

Akane and Azusa can be excused for making P-chan a prize, because they do not know that he is actually a Jusenkyo-cursed person. Ranma does. Therefore, Ranma not only supporting their decision, but actually enforcing it, is very cruel behavior.

Chaining him to the trophy is not worse than locking him in a cage.

Yes it is. It is far worse. As a trophy, he was displayed before hundreds of people as an object, to be given to the winner as property. I cannot imagine how humiliating that would be. In a cage, he would be frustrated that he can't get out and interfere with Ranma's match, but it would be much less humiliating, and Ranma would presumably let him out after he had won his match. There is a huge degree of difference between the two.