Could Ranma ever stand up to Dragonball /DBZ ?

[claymade]

As with earlier, whichever universe is entering which MUST change its core rules to fit those of the established universe.

I agree in many cases, but some of it depends on how you work the mechanics of the crossing over itself. Certainly if you're going to directly fuse the two universes, then given proper training Ranma could be as capable as any of the other human cast members. On the other hand, if you're doing one of those "wormhole" type crossovers (where both the Ranma and DBZ universes exist independently, and something happens to bring the two universes into contact) then you probably couldn't say that.

This also means that some things, like Goku’s teleportation technique, would have to be explained away as magic, since the characters no longer possess the levels of Ki necessary to perform such feats. Flying at supersonic speeds? Not happening.

I think there's some ammount of leeway for the authors to fudge things in that regard. If we're playing with the rules, we can also play with how much energy is required to do some of those things. (Heck, Happousai's Bathouse-fu appears to incorporate a rather odd form of teleportation.)

German phrase. “Ueber allen” translates to “above all”. Often confused with “ueber alles”, which means “more than anything else”. “Ueber allen” refers to Ranma always winning, always being better than the rest of the cast.

Bleah. Agreed, let's avoid that one. Like the plague.

[Siden]

runnerz:
Point noted, but if Roshi existed in the Ranmaverse, then his Kamehameha would not have been able to destroy the moon.
Going by the Perfect ShiShiHokoden and Moko Takabisha scenes in the manga, the MT only makes a small hole, less than 2metres wide, in the wall when Ranma fires it off, and the PSSH's crater (1) (2) is approximately 1.5-2 metres deep and around 5.5 metres wide (assuming Ryoga to be of average height at 1.8 metres). Incredably small by even Dragon Ball standards, let alone Z or GT. MT is the analogue of the standard Kamehameha, with the PSSH and HSH probably being analogues to one of the "boss-killer" attacks. In terms of Ranmaverse power, the PSSH would probably be the power output of a SS Kamehameha around the time of the Cell games.
As for the Herb and Saffron fights (for a boss-fight view on the Ranmaverse), while both result in more damage than any of Ranma's other fights, in both accounts it is the accumulation of both combatants going all out over an undetermined period of time. Still, it is not really that much in regards to Dragon Ball levels of damage. However, the destruction of the Horaisan mountain can be attributed to the hollow nature of it. Either the water was stored there in a static state, or a stream ran under the surface. The point is, the mountain was not solid rock. So therefore Ranma and Herb did not destroy it, but rather rendered it in such a state that the mountain collapsed due to structural failure. A much easier thing to do.
Furthermore, the Saffron fight does not really do much damage outside of destroying the taps, and Saffron's blast craters are no bigger than those made by other character's attacks. Then again, Saffron shoots fire, which is not exactly known for its blasting ability.
claymade:
On the "wormhole" type crossovers. Then only times I have encountered that type of crossover, the authors went for the DBZ-rules Ranma who can somehow (usually through some badly written Deus ex Machina) match the Saiyans.
On teleportation. You are right, the energy requirements would be much lower, but I would like to leave the use of magic or ki open to interpretation by authors.
Edit:
I just had to add this:
Please, think of the Catgirls

[Zwzn]

runnerz:
Point noted, but if Roshi existed in the Ranmaverse, then his Kamehameha would not have been able to destroy the moon.
Going by the Perfect ShiShiHokoden and Moko Takabisha scenes in the manga, the MT only makes a small hole, less than 2metres wide, in the wall when Ranma fires it off, and the PSSH's crater (1) (2) is approximately 1.5-2 metres deep and around 5.5 metres wide (assuming Ryoga to be of average height at 1.8 metres). Incredably small by even Dragon Ball standards, let alone Z or GT. MT is the analogue of the standard Kamehameha, with the PSSH and HSH probably being analogues to one of the "boss-killer" attacks. In terms of Ranmaverse power, the PSSH would probably be the power output of a SS Kamehameha around the time of the Cell games.
As for the Herb and Saffron fights (for a boss-fight view on the Ranmaverse), while both result in more damage than any of Ranma's other fights, in both accounts it is the accumulation of both combatants going all out over an undetermined period of time. Still, it is not really that much in regards to Dragon Ball levels of damage. However, the destruction of the Horaisan mountain can be attributed to the hollow nature of it. Either the water was stored there in a static state, or a stream ran under the surface. The point is, the mountain was not solid rock. So therefore Ranma and Herb did not destroy it, but rather rendered it in such a state that the mountain collapsed due to structural failure. A much easier thing to do.
Furthermore, the Saffron fight does not really do much damage outside of destroying the taps, and Saffron's blast craters are no bigger than those made by other character's attacks. Then again, Saffron shoots fire, which is not exactly known for its blasting ability.
claymade:
On the "wormhole" type crossovers. Then only times I have encountered that type of crossover, the authors went for the DBZ-rules Ranma who can somehow (usually through some badly written Deus ex Machina) match the Saiyans.
On teleportation. You are right, the energy requirements would be much lower, but I would like to leave the use of magic or ki open to interpretation by authors.
Edit:
I just had to add this:
Please, think of the Catgirls

Some ki blasts in DBZ only make tiny holes, and others only cut things. Not every ki attack in DB make a huge crater. It all depends on what the fighter wants to do.

[ShiroK]

I would have to say that anything that can be defined as a fair fight Ranma is dead in one punch.....that being said if for all intents we make Ranma a heartless killer he has 2 moves that could win against almost any DBZ vilian or Saiya-jin....
Sai Dai Kyuu Kijin Raisu Dan; A micron thick cuting blade, you get hit with it you die. It is prety much the Destructo disk, but is almost invisisble. This wins because DBZ chars like to take the hit and then not be hurt to show that thier opponent has no chance. They try that with this move and they die, if he is smart it was from behind cloaked with the umi-sen-ken and he slinks off into the night.... Or another DBZ character powers up blowing up several acres killing Ranma in the blast.
Yasha Tan Kai Huo; This one involves him getting very lucky and managing to piss the DBZ off so much that they unleash a devistating Ki attack, He then simply traps it in the star cloth and then utilizes there own atack against them. Ranma seems to have possibly developed a varient of this move in his fight against Herb as he was able to draw the Ki from both Herb and his own Hiryu Shoten Ha blasts and reforge both atacks Ki into a new raw energy blast.
Then there is always the fall back,and my personal preference, water from the spring of drowned octopus and watch them suficate. It's underhanded and petty, but if it works it works.
O and on the bad Deus Ex answer for power up try this one....The Nanban Miror gets shatered and Ranma gets a shard in the eye, It's always active so he is everywhere and everywhen at once and due to the curse being of young girl he actually grows younger when in female form to the original age the curse imposses effectively making him imortal and omnipresent. Due to the fact that killing him at any point in time fails to kill him mere seconds before he is effectively able to "survive" any atack and recover anywound instantly.

[claymade]

Sai Dai Kyuu Kijin Raisu Dan; A micron thick cuting blade, you get hit with it you die. It is prety much the Destructo disk, but is almost invisisble. This wins because DBZ chars like to take the hit and then not be hurt to show that thier opponent has no chance. They try that with this move and they die, if he is smart it was from behind cloaked with the umi-sen-ken and he slinks off into the night.... Or another DBZ character powers up blowing up several acres killing Ranma in the blast.

Well, he'd have to have learned it first--so far, he's only trained in the Umisenken. Also, is it ever canonically stated that it can cut through anything? As far as I can see, it functions as a "really sharp cutting attack", but there's no mention of limits or lack thereof.
(Indeed, from this picture it seems that even Ranma is tough enough to survive what appear to be a set of fairly direct hits... I assume a DBZ warrior would be capable of faring even better against it.)
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book28/RM28-128.html

Yasha Tan Kai Huo; This one involves him getting very lucky and managing to piss the DBZ off so much that they unleash a devistating Ki attack, He then simply traps it in the star cloth and then utilizes there own atack against them. Ranma seems to have possibly developed a varient of this move in his fight against Herb as he was able to draw the Ki from both Herb and his own Hiryu Shoten Ha blasts and reforge both atacks Ki into a new raw energy blast.

Mmm... I think that'd be tricky to justify, since--even if we assumed that the star cloth could handle levels of energy on the planet-destroying scale--I have a hard time seeing any of the characters getting so pissed off at him that they go so far into overkill as to use enough power to one-hit themselves to finish a human like him off.

Then there is always the fall back,and my personal preference, water from the spring of drowned octopus and watch them suficate. It's underhanded and petty, but if it works it works.

Indeed, Jusenkyo is an excellent trump card.
Similarly, there are plenty of Ranmaverse artifacts that take no notice of how tough you are, affecting the mind, not the body--I personally see no reason why the koi rod or the apology eyeglasses wouldn't work just as well on a Saiyan as anyone else.

[ShiroK]

You may very well be corect on the Kijin Raisu Dan, I believed that the blades had missed him except for the one that cliped his arm and face. After looking at that again it does apear he was hit strait on. Though that was the regular Kijin not the considerably more powerfull Sai Dai Kyuu Kijin Raisu Dan. I believe that it actually mentions that the standard Kijin is not actually a Ki atack at all it is simply a vacume created by rapid movement.
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book28/RM28-147.html

[FOG3]

Fanon stated as canon, joy.

I would have to say that anything that can be defined as a fair fight Ranma is dead in one punch.....that being said if for all intents we make Ranma a heartless killer he has 2 moves that could win against almost any DBZ vilian or Saiya-jin....

I'm sorry, Kenshiro won't teach him and Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can't be taught.

Sai Dai Kyuu Kijin Raisu Dan; A micron thick cuting blade, you get hit with it you die. It is prety much the Destructo disk, but is almost invisisble. This wins because DBZ chars like to take the hit and then not be hurt to show that thier opponent has no chance. They try that with this move and they die, if he is smart it was from behind cloaked with the umi-sen-ken and he slinks off into the night.... Or another DBZ character powers up blowing up several acres killing Ranma in the blast.

Micron, huh? What's the big deal? A good sharp edge is in that range, and unlike your fanon technique they have something behind them. So in short take not only a one shot wonder but a sealed one shot wonder, wax on poetically to the limit and pretend it's canon. *Yawn*
If you were a decent fanboy you'd be dragging out that magic talisman of cold, and going off on it being one of those magic cut through anything artifacts.

Yasha Tan Kai Huo; This one involves him getting very lucky and managing to piss the DBZ off so much that they unleash a devistating Ki attack, He then simply traps it in the star cloth and then utilizes there own atack against them. Ranma seems to have possibly developed a varient of this move in his fight against Herb as he was able to draw the Ki from both Herb and his own Hiryu Shoten Ha blasts and reforge both atacks Ki into a new raw energy blast.

At least with the other one you were sort of respecting canon. No, just no.

O and on the bad Deus Ex answer for power up try this one....The Nanban Miror gets shatered and Ranma gets a shard in the eye, It's always active so he is everywhere and everywhen at once and due to the curse being of young girl he actually grows younger when in female form to the original age the curse imposses effectively making him imortal and omnipresent. Due to the fact that killing him at any point in time fails to kill him mere seconds before he is effectively able to "survive" any atack and recover anywound instantly.

And? Benares (3x3 Eyes) can already do the survive death and destruction business, but I expect very few people would grant him the ability to take out DBZ characters.

[pspinler]

Very slightly relevant, there's a humor oriented one shot on ff.net wherein ryoga encounters, and is instrumental in defeating, some of the dbz androids:
"Right Place, Right Time" by claymade, here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3353923/1/
Disclaimers:
a. it's humor. don't take it too seriously.
b. the androids obviously could have blown away Ryoga at any time, and were stupidly playing with him,
c. what he did wouldn't work on any of the other dbz villians anyway.
Still, it's humorous, and slightly relevant to this thread.
-- Pat

[Metroidvania]

It's also right here on the forum on C&C.....

[claymade]

It's also right here on the forum on C&C.....

That's true, although the "final version" on ff.net version is a better one. It incorporates some additional C&C given by another beta reader, who ended up reading through it (unexpectedly) after I'd posted it in that forum.
In any case, many thanks for making mention of it, pspinler! Glad you found it funny!
(And, in fact, it's worth noting that it was this very thread that was the inspiration for that fic in the first place... So a big "thank you" to all who contributed to this discussion... )

[ShiroK]

Micron, huh? What's the big deal? A good sharp edge is in that range, and unlike your fanon technique they have something behind them. So in short take not only a one shot wonder but a sealed one shot wonder, wax on poetically to the limit and pretend it's canon. *Yawn*

Sorry maybe i used the wrong word when i used micron....Because clearly no blade known to man can slice several feet of stone near instantly without causing friction and super heating the stone causing explosive presure build up. To do that it would have to be virtually thiner than a molocule and seperate the molecules. I would normally define that as impossible, but it is clearly done on this page with the more basic Kijin
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book28/RM28-129.html
As to the other move i won't argue about it's limits as they are never deffined. As far as i rember the move is used once in the serries and that is against the Sai Dai Kyuu Kijin Raisu Dan that it appears to block and contain.[/url][/quote]

[nodregah]

Just thought I'd mention that the HSH would work great against any of the DBZ fighters. They spend so much time powering up, which causes heat, that he could pull it off, since it is fueled from the heat.
Picture this: Goku powers up. Ranma runs in a spiral. Goku still powers up. Ranma runs in a spiral. Goku still powers up. Ranma releases HSH. Goku still powers up. Goku gets slammed from the attack. Goku still powers up. HSH gets fuel from Goku, intensifies. Goku, seeing more power is needed, keeps powering up. HSH wears Goku down. Goku falls, defeated. HSH dies.
Sorry, it's simplifyed I know, but you get the gist of it.

[claymade]

Just thought I'd mention that the HSH would work great against any of the DBZ fighters. They spend so much time powering up, which causes heat, that he could pull it off, since it is fueled from the heat.

But throwing a HSH requires you to actually lead the other person into a spiral--something that would be difficult to accomplish against such overpowered foes. Heck, it was a close thing with just Ryouga when he was learning it.
Not to mention that, as Saffron both explained and demonstrated, the HSH is in most cases not terribly useful (as a direct attack) against foes with the ability to fly.

[lwf58]

That was the original version. By the time of the Jusendo arc, he'd worked out ways to throw a HSH that didn't require leading the opponent in a spiral. It's why he was able to pull off the variations he used on Saffron.

[claymade]

That was the original version. By the time of the Jusendo arc, he'd worked out ways to throw a HSH that didn't require leading the opponent in a spiral. It's why he was able to pull off the variations he used on Saffron.

True, but there arguably still needed to be a spiral involved--for instance, he couldn't just "hit" Saffron's first blast with a HSH, he needed to carve his ice-spiral pattern into the ground for it to work.
Really, the whole fight with Saffron is full of special cases. For one thing, he has an uber-source of cold there, which he doesn't usually have--note how he specifies using his "frozen fist" to do the (much smaller than normal) HSH that kills Saffron. And he is/was fighting an opponent who's putting out not ki, but actual fire, of an intensity that can melt rock.
Not to mention that (for all of them after the first one, which he did make a spiral for) he either is or recently was in an aerial fight in the middle of a superheated whirlwind, which means things are already going to be spiraling around to some extent.
So, yeah, I'm more inclined to just write that stuff off as special cases involving the Saffron fight than to assume that Ranma has the ability to arbitrarily and at any time make his opponent's ki jump up and whack themselves via a simple uppercut. Not only is that incredibly overpowered, but I just don't see how it fits with how the technique is supposed to work.
The most I could see in a normal situation without a spiral would be smaller, "blast type" HSH attacks shooting out from his spiraling fist, like the one he killed Saffron with. But even that feels uncertain to me without the fire blast and the ice fist. I don't know if that situation would have worked with normal fist and a normal ki blast... although I suppose it is plausible.
But the standard, big, come-up-from-under-your-opponent's-feet-and-engulf-them version? I have a hard time with that one from just an uppercut.
EDIT: Gah, replied twice to something I'd forgot I'd already replied to. Must be losing my mind. It's deleted now.