Temple of Ranma's Sailor Senshi Seifuku

I thought of putting up some examples, but I'm too lazy. That, and I don't want it to look like I'm trying to prove a point of some kind. You're welcome to share your examples for whatever choice you make in the poll, though. It's just an opinion poll. Use whatever considerations you deem applicable to make your choice.

I chose his male side, because it's the form he was born in, the form he learned most of his style in, and the form he prefers to fight in. I admit it may help that my preferred canon is the anime, where it's explicitly stated that Ranma sacrifices strength for speed in his female form, and also that Ranma's female form throws him off in all sorts of subtle ways that detract from his usual skill... though it's outright stated, by Genma of all people, that this is because Ranma so rarely trains specifically to improve his skill while in female form. He doesn't bother to overcome his unfamiliarity with the way his cursed body handles, so he naturally suffers a minor, but noticable, dip in skill.

Beyond that lies the specifics of his special techniques, and the fact that most -if not all- of the styles he assimilated through usage of his female form were pretty much hokey Martial Arts & Crafts stuff. The Amaguriken, which is speed-based, is the only one that works better with Ranma in female form, and the fact that he does lose strength in that form means that the extra speed more or less ends up simply balancing it to leave it the same effectiveness as in his male form. The Hiryu Shoten Ha requires only emotional control and room to perform the spiral, so it doesn't matter what form he's in- though his curse is established as being a sore spot and so he's, if anything, a bit easier to distract if in female form (or references to it are made). The Moko Takabisha is fuelled by confidence, and the Nyanniichuan curse impairs that, so it's weaker when not used by male-Ranma.

There's not really a difference except maybe for his reach. In his fight against Mousse he didn't take his shorter reach into account and it almost cost him the match.

While Ranma's martial arts abilities do seem a bit lessened in female form, as evidenced by the matches vs. Herb, Taro, and Mousse, with less reach that he isn't adapted to, less strength, reduced ki control, etc. I believe the girl form suits Ranma better because he chooses it most often when prompted to come up with a plan or pushed to express herself. Ranma is rather emotionally open in both forms, but oddly enough, Ranma's emotions seem _more_ stable and controlled in girl form, indicating a level of comfort in it that wouldn't normally be expected. In addition, while it is partly Takahashi's fault for the way of plotting things out and trying to provide fanservice, author intentions sometimes need to be ignored in cannon analysis, and when prompted to come up with some sort of plot or plan, outside of a fight, Ranma almost universally chooses his girl form in some way to enact it in, often in some odd disguise, when theoretically he could just as easily come up with disguises for his male form (although Ryoga for example might see through disguises of the male form more easily).

Additionally, Ranma's body language in male form tends to seem stiffer and more distressed most of the time, whereas in female form it seems more relaxed and playful in most scenes with it. Again, while this is plot timing related Takahashi's fault, it still shows generalities if cannon is taken directly and author intentions ignored.

Even if you take Takahashi's intentions into account, while Ranma might nominally and emotionally prefer his male form, it is more comically appropriate for Ranma to take female form, and Ranma's martial arts are still good in it. Tven if not as good as the male form, and Ranma also does a lot of other things in female form that he might be embarrassed to do in male form, even if this is an identity issue, and some might argue that it is because Ranma is not associating that form with himself or believes he won't be recognized, the fact that he continues these plots and actions even when it is known or she is recognized by Akane or someone indicates that it isn't a matter of being recognized but feeling more freedom in his actions in female form, due to having less defined or stubborn gender roles notions for that form. Ranma gets into more plot hyjinx in female form, making it more valuable to the storytelling, which is part of why Takahashi never cures him, but often temporarily locks him.

For combat, male form definitely. This is based on the manga. Ranma is less skilled as a female (had not had the form as long/less familiar with form), physically weaker (explicitly stated), slower (in the manga it is slightly more realistic and a decrease in limb length would make you a slower runner, all world records point to males being faster -more muscle density would also allow you to punch faster - though smaller target and increased flexibility would increase up close dodging ability), has less ki (shown during Herb battle that male form has much more ki or at least can access more), not as tough (for example a hit by Pantyhose Taro was capable of knocking out Ranma, when male form Ranma has taken harder hits and kept going), shorter reach, and less confident (Ranma has looked worried while female and then when regained male form instantly dealt with what was worrying him moments before and is a sore spot for him which can be used against him). Takahashi has continuously used Ranma is not as good in female form as a plot point throughout the manga.

That said Ranma's female form forces Ranma to adapt/compensate/develop new tactics - overall increasing skill/abilities in both forms. It also allows him to do things he wouldn't do in male form (either because of society or because would not come up if he was only a male -such as take Akane's place). It does have some advantages though. Guys tend to go easier on girls, allows larger range of manipulation (Ranma is manipulative and female form works better when manipulating guys -which is why he often chooses female form for manipulating people - though does do so as a male against girls - see date with Shampoo, machinations to get shampoo from Shampoo, messing with Akane during dojo destroyer arc, manipulating Akane to get rid of do-chan, etc...), increased flexibility, sometimes shorter is better, looks less threatening, can get away with somethings as a female would not be able to get away with as a guy, etc...

Hmmmm. I'll decide to go with his girl form. I was split on the matter, so I was waiting for the responses so I could go with whichever way was considered less (since I didn't want to simply take the middle path). Since a lot of technical/practical issues were brought up, I'll mention some unrealistic (to one extent or another; but sound, in their own way of thinking) ideas instead.

The Saotome school specializes in mid-air combat. Birds (pun intended), in order to rule the skies of the animal kingdom, have to be both light, nimble and have plenty of stamina. (The first two are self-explanatory. For the latter, if I remember correctly, women inherently have more stamina than men, due to a difference in the ratio of muscle, fat and water in the body. Where a man might be able to run faster, conceivably a woman in the same (relevant) shape can run longer.) But it's also reasonable to say that, if his female form is weaker, that means he would have to compensate more, which takes more advantage of his style's principles.

The kachu tenchin amaguriken utilizes speed, not strength, and neither form are shown to benefit more speed from it. But it does require a lot of energy, so it'd be more ideal for his female form (as noted in the last example).

The hiryu shoten ha also utilizes speed and flexibility (in dodging) over strength, since it's meant to be used against strong adversaries when one's own strength (or lack of it) is ineffectual. And if the example given with Herb is correct, being a girl would mean less/a weaker battle aura to reign in. That, and his female form is a smaller target.

The umisen-ken is much like the hiryu shoten ha. It sets personal strength aside for subtlety, whereby attacks, when striking from a blind spot/weakness, can compensate for what one lacks in strength. And the female form is both a smaller target and weighs less than his male form, which are more ideal for sneaking around.

The moko takabisha approaches things from one of two opposing sides, that of light versus heavy (much like positive versus negative, black versus white, female versus male, et cetera). Although it's arguable if there's any male versus female aspect to it, it's still light, and women are inherently lighter than men. (I thought tossing a joke in there wouldn't hurt, since it was the only technique I didn't see any clear difference for either form.)

(Somewhat-related, but otherwise deviating, note: the thing about Herb's difference in energy might have something to do with the fact that he's part dragon, and dragons are notably male figures in Chinese and Japanese mythology, if I remember correctly. Just a thought.)

Nope men can run longer than females, first look at African tribes that still hunt animals by running them to exhaustion it is always males who do this (or look at people who out run horses in long distance races like those held in the United Kingdom). Testosterone - promotes the production of haemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying protein found inside red blood cells, and testosterone also increases the concentration of red cells in the blood. The key female sex hormone, oestrogen, has no such effect. So males are getting more oxygen to their cells and therefor can run longer distances than females.

There is a reason why males were the hunters and females were gathers, males are built to go to farther extremes for longer periods of time.

Energy/ Ki is higher in male form in the manga.

The light, weak birds do not rule the sky. They get eaten. Raptors and birds of prey rule and they are strong, fast, and not the lightest of birds. Also stamina means nothing if your over powered in the first few seconds.

less/a weaker battle aura to reign in

Weaker battle aura is not better for the Hiryu Shoten Ha. It doesn't work that way. Ranma is still releasing battle aura only not hot emotionally charged aura, instead cold (so cold that Ryoga comments on it). While he may reign it in some he is mostly making it the opposite temperature (creating a temperature imbalance that forms a tornado).

The mokotakabishi is still more powerful as male than as a female. Two reasons. Ranma is more confident in himself as a male (the emotion he usually uses for his ki blasts) and it is shown that ki blasts of others like Herb are weaker in female form.

There are many female dragons in Japanese and Chinese mythology for example:
# Kiyohime 清姫 "Purity Princess" was a teahouse waitress who fell in love with a young Buddhist priest. After he spurned her, she studied magic, transformed into a dragon, and killed him.
# Nure-onna 濡女 "Wet Woman" was a dragon with a snake's body and a woman's head. She was typically seen while washing her hair on a riverbank and would sometimes kill humans when angered.
# Toyotama-hime 豊玉姫 "Luminous Pearl Princess" was Ryūjin's daughter. She purportedly was an ancestress of Emperor Jimmu, Japan's legendary first emperor.

three headed dog wrote:first look at African tribes that still hunt animals by running them to exhaustion it is always males who do this

That's an argument of culture. That doesn't mean that they couldn't if they were allowed. Females have been repressed in many physical and mental areas, in many regions of the world, for long periods of time. That's bound to have a negative effect down the line. But if what men normally do becomes normal for women, there will likely be an improvement on the average performance. Some things aren't debatable, like absolute strength and speed according to one's size and build. But things like body weight, versus weight that can be lifted, is. Kind of like how there's an ant that can carry a hundred times its own weight. But the real argument is...

Testosterone - promotes the production of haemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying protein found inside red blood cells, and testosterone also increases the concentration of red cells in the blood. The key female sex hormone, oestrogen, has no such effect. So males are getting more oxygen to their cells and therefor can run longer distances than females.

There's more to it than that. There's also general energy and fluid management. It heralds to the saying that what burns twice as bright burns out twice as fast. It's true, men will have less trouble when they attain the maximum of their potential, but to maintain it is still costly. After all, even a cheetah can only achieve and maintain its top speed for a short time. But that has nothing to do with stamina and, thus, endurance. If either pace themselves it will ultimately come down to how well the body manages its supplies better, and the female body has its edge there. It's just not as evident because people don't normally have endurance competitions that last long enough for a man to run out of energy before a woman does. Well, as far as I know, it hasn't been proven, so I won't claim that as a fact. But it's sound enough in theory, according to whatever meager research has been done on it. (As far as I know. I haven't had an easy time finding much on the subject, other than on Discovery channel documentaries... and my memory of them has faded quite a bit.)

There is a reason why males were the hunters and females were gathers, males are built to go to farther extremes for longer periods of time.

Not, it's usually culture, and a matter of circumstance. Since you mentioned African tribes before, I'll use that as an example. Since there were, in fact, plenty of matriarchal tribes in ancient Africa, where women could be both warriors and hunters. I do believe that there are still some tribes that exist today that have women either as warriors, hunters, or both.

Right off the top of my head, here's an example.

Energy/ Ki is higher in male form in the manga.

Based on what?

The light, weak birds do not rule the sky. They get eaten. Raptors and birds of prey rule and they are strong, fast, and not the lightest of birds. Also stamina means nothing if your over powered in the first few seconds.

That's not what I was getting at. I'm saying that they are in the sky for a reason, because they are birds. That includes the birds of prey. Birds are up there dominating the sky, rather than, say, chipmunks and snakes, because their bodies are more suitable for maneuvering in the air. That's what I meant.

Weaker battle aura is not better for the Hiryu Shoten Ha. It doesn't work that way. Ranma is still releasing battle aura only not hot emotionally charged aura, instead cold (so cold that Ryoga comments on it). While he may reign it in some he is mostly making it the opposite temperature (creating a temperature imbalance that forms a tornado).

That's not how it works. Yes, there is a result of temperature, but it all comes down to emotions, or the lack of them. The only reason why Ranma can do either the hiryu shoten ha and the umisen-ken is because he's reigning in his emotions. That's why he tries to bring out passionate feelings from his opponent for the hiryu shoten ha, because letting emotions out is the opposite of reigning one's emotions in. That's why Cologne specifically said that he couldn't be embarrassed or angry, and why Ryu was able to catch his movements when he made Ranma angry during their match. It's the same concept behind how Ryoga's emotional discharge, filled with his heavy emotions, passes through him when he's emotionally hollow... and hits him when Ranma brings out an emotion out of him. The reason why I say a weaker ki (a battle aura just ki being exuded) is better, if females inherently have weaker ki (which I don't believe to be the case), is because there would be less to keep reigned in. If the ki was quantified, for instance, and his female form had 100 ki to his male form's 200, if Ranma exuded ten percent in either form the difference would be 10 to 20; his male form would exude twice the amount of ki, since he inherently has twice more to use. And 10 ki is a smaller "signal" to follow/see.

The mokotakabishi is still more powerful as male than as a female. Two reasons. Ranma is more confident in himself as a male (the emotion he usually uses for his ki blasts) and it is shown that ki blasts of others like Herb are weaker in female form.

I don't think Ranma's confidence in himself is dependent upon what body he's in. He'll lack some confidence in both forms, during a fight, until he knows he's figured out a way to win, regardless of what body he's using. And that knowledge is the key to his confidence. If either body is required to attain that victory it's just a means to an end, not the crux of his confidence.

And Herb can still be a special case. I've yet to see any examples where Ranma's ki is weaker in female form. Which brings us back to dragons in Chinese and Japanese mythology. Even with the examples you gave, it doesn't address the overall nature of dragons in their mythologies. Males are both predominant, and I don't know of any females that are in an equal or higher position to male dragons. Which is besides the point that dragons are strongly tied to male energies and qualities, regardless of whether there are females dragons.

First off, I don't get the bird analogy since the lighter, weaker, or even the ones with greatest stamina are not the ones that will win a fight. The fast, strong, large birds are the ones who do that. It's even arguable that birds rule the sky since bats rule the night and flying insects out number both birds and bats any way you look at it (number, overall weight). Is it supposed to mean that female form would have some type of advantage over male form in the air, even though the higher stats of male form (more leg muscle density/strength = higher jump for example) would pretty much mean that male Ranma would grapple with and then entirely dominate female form Ranma.

There are quite a few books and studies that show males can run faster and longer than females here is the results of one from the book Gender Difference In Running Speed: Humans Versus Horses And Dogs:

In male and female running ability, it is appropriate to ask if there are physiological parameters known to affect athletic ability. In humans and animals, maximal aerobic capacity, the maximum rate at which the body can use oxygen to produce energy, is often used as an index of endurance running ability. This index is significantly greater in men than women, even when body mass is taken into account. The higher maximum aerobic capacity of men vs. women has been verified repeatedly, in young and old, athletic and sedentary. The differences between the sexes that underlie men’s athletic advantage include body composition (percent body fat versus lean body mass), cardiac size, blood volume, and hemoglobin concentration. For a given total body weight, men have more lean body mass and less fat. Men also have larger hearts and a greater maximum cardiac output (liters of blood/minute) then women.

From time magazine, on speed not distance:

Although women have higher body-fat ratios and presumably a larger emergency energy store, females do not have the muscular power that males have, and that may be the "differentiating factor." When matched for weight, men outrun women by average speeds of 10%.

From a study on Gender differences in endurance performance over extremely long distances:

The fact remains that the performance gap between male and female record holders in the really long running races 50k to 6 days is actually more on the order of 15 to 20%, instead of the 10% difference for the standard distances.

Almost every study I can find points out to guys running faster and longer. Also the fairly large difference of both height and muscle mass would mean Ranma has both longer legs and more muscle power.

The matriarchal societies (and other societies like the horse nomads of China) that had women hunters because tool use made the differences between sexes moot since a horse bound rider or a bow and arrow more than make up for the differences. For hunting with spears or natural weapons the differences between sexes make a difference.

The Soul of Ice is the part of the Hiryu Shoten Ha that deals with restraining emotions which is step one. You seem to be forgetting the second step called the body of ice (you know the part where you release a cold aura). Ranma was reigning in his emotions but still letting out his now icy aura. Cologne even says that in the volume "by uniting such hot and cold auras" - key word auras. Umisenken involves suppressing the aura and the emotions, not the hiryu shoten ha, for the hiryu shoten ha you have to restrain emotions and let out the (now cold emotionless) aura.

Ranma is more confident in male form, simply because it is his normal form, the form he has had his entire life and he knows his abilities better in that form. Plus looking at the battles Ranma seems to be more confident in his male form (at least to me).

The third dragon I mentioned is the daughter of one high ranking kami and is one of the most powerful kami of all and the goddess kannon sometimes take the shape of a nine headed dragon. While the dragon is male energy in Feng Shui (whereas the phoenix is female energy), that is not universal throughout China or Japan -example goddess taking the shape of dragons. Even if that was the case, Ranma still would have weaker ki while female according to Feng Shui since Yang is about power, brashness, and direct energy and yin is about being subtle, thoughtful and indirect energy.

three headed dog wrote:First off, I don't get the bird analogy since the lighter, weaker, or even the ones with greatest stamina are not the ones that will win a fight. The fast, strong, large birds are the ones who do that. It's even arguable that birds rule the sky since bats rule the night and flying insects out number both birds and bats any way you look at it (number, overall weight). Is it supposed to mean that female form would have some type of advantage over male form in the air, even though the higher stats of male form (more leg muscle density/strength = higher jump for example) would pretty much mean that male Ranma would grapple with and then entirely dominate female form Ranma.

*Sighs*

Alright, I'll try to put it in terms that are more simple. Why don't snakes fly in the air? Why don't bears? Because their bodies aren't made for flight. Like I said in the beginning, I was aiming at unrealistic concepts, which outside of logic make sense. Not that the Ranma 1/2 universe isn't flexible enough for it, but that isn't the point. I'm simply saying that Ranma's female form has more in common with the creatures that take to the air than her male body does, even if superficially.

There are quite a few books and studies that show males can run faster and longer than females here is the results of one from the book Gender Difference In Running Speed: Humans Versus Horses And Dogs:

While I'm glad you went out of your way to provide those pieces of information, only the last one really applied to what we're talking about. The second one mentioned something relevant, but focused on speed. Which, of course, isn't what we're discussing: it's the gas mileage, not the speed limit.

The fact remains that the performance gap between male and female record holders in the really long running races 50k to 6 days is actually more on the order of 15 to 20%, instead of the 10% difference for the standard distances.

Almost every study I can find points out to guys running faster and longer. Also the fairly large difference of both height and muscle mass would mean Ranma has both longer legs and more muscle power.

The thing is, those studies are probably only recording information available through routine events, not actual experiments. Everything is probably uncontrolled and the backgrounds of the people taking those endurance races aren't properly looked at and compared. You'd have to look at their history, and how active they've been. You'd also have to observe their diet, and whether it's ideal for their body's needs, in regard to providing energy. And then there's the psychological side of it: are males or females more likely to push their limits, or beyond, before their mind tells them to stop before their body does? The psychology also extends into culture, and what's expected out of a man's and woman's performance. Like I mentioned before, it's common for this sort of thing to not be seen as important in many societies throughout time, even now, because women are either not expected or suppressed in certain areas.

Take the Tarahumara indians, for instance. Their culture is strongly tied to endurance running. But the special running events for men are more important despite that. The thing is, it certainly helps to perform well when you're encouraged to do well. Sure, that means that they can also try hard to spite those who don't take what they do seriously, but that doesn't mean that they will. Some environments literally rob an individual's desire to perform better than what's expected of them.

The matriarchal societies (and other societies like the horse nomads of China) that had women hunters because tool use made the differences between sexes moot since a horse bound rider or a bow and arrow more than make up for the differences. For hunting with spears or natural weapons the differences between sexes make a difference.

What kind of difference? Women in those tribes still used natural weapons and spears, and they were still effective. It really depends upon the game, and whether it's a matter of running it to exhaustion or confronting it directly. Since we're talking about the former, and the animal is helpless, does it matter which sex uses which weapon for the finishing blow?

The Soul of Ice is the part of the Hiryu Shoten Ha that deals with restraining emotions which is step one. You seem to be forgetting the second step called the body of ice (you know the part where you release a cold aura). Ranma was reigning in his emotions but still letting out his now icy aura. Cologne even says that in the volume "by uniting such hot and cold auras" - key word auras. Umisenken involves suppressing the aura and the emotions, not the hiryu shoten ha, for the hiryu shoten ha you have to restrain emotions and let out the (now cold emotionless) aura.

If the training was about the aura, it would have been called the aura of ice. The cold aura is just the desired byproduct of the actual training. Heat expands, and cold contracts. Thus, holding in emotions instead of letting them out. Which is why the same principle works when Ranma reins in his emotions to sneak around with the umisen-ken. But it goes without saying that, since Ranma was cold inside, it would effect the immediate environment around his body. It's not so much that he projects a cold aura, but rather that his body cools the air around him, thus forming an aura of cool air (by definition, affecting the atmosphere around him). It's the air, and not his aura, after all, that creates the tornado. Cold air and hot air; that's why Akane's use of fire, to create heated air in place of a battle aura, was a feasible idea. That's also why Ranma was able to use the lingering heat in the atmosphere from Herb's prior attacks, rather than draw directly from his "aura" as a heat source.

And I forgot what this stuff had to do with his female form... Oh, yeah. I already made my case. Stupid memory lapse. ;/

Ranma is more confident in male form, simply because it is his normal form, the form he has had his entire life and he knows his abilities better in that form. Plus looking at the battles Ranma seems to be more confident in his male form (at least to me).

"Seems" is the operative word, there. But you're still missing my point. Ranma's confidence, either male or female, will probably only occur to him in matters that directly relate to either body. When he tries to look handsome and act suave as a guy, for instance. Don't forget that his pride also extends to his female body, or else his pride wouldn't have been hurt when Tsubasa insulted his girl form's appearance. It's obvious that, even if he doesn't want it, he recognizes the female body as his, and thus it must live up to the same standards. So it's much less an issue of his body affecting his pride, and more the circumstances that affect his pride. No matter what body he's in when he knows he's going to win, it's the fact that he will win, and not what body he wins it in, that will affect his pride the most. That's why it doesn't stop him from using either body for whatever occasion, whether it was his idea or not, until he realizes why the other body would be more beneficial (whether if he's in a position to change to that form or not). Which is simply saying that his confidence is directly related to how useful a body is for a given situation, and not the body regardless of the situation.

Although it's funny we're arguing about it since this part had been the one I made as a joke. XD

Even if that was the case, Ranma still would have weaker ki while female according to Feng Shui since Yang is about power, brashness, and direct energy and yin is about being subtle, thoughtful and indirect energy.

So wouldn't the stuff I put in bold support why so much of his art and techniques would match the nature of yin? But, wait; where's Takahashi's position in regard to these ideas? I forgot. Buddhism? Shintoism? Knowing that might help how male and female energy works, here. *Shrugs*

While I disagree with you, I no longer feel like arguing this ( I totally could since I just finished reading two books on prehistoric civilization and a book on tribes like the natives that live on an island off the coast of Alaska). I don't see how female form has more in common with creatures of flight than male form does, since my way of looking at it is to make Ranma an actual creature of flight which would make Ranma a bigger more deadly bird.

I disagree with you on how the Hiryu Shoten Ha works. For starters if just being emotionless cooled the air around you, that would give Ranma away during the Umisenken which also required him to be emotionless. There is also mention of the body of ice, which is secondary to the soul of ice (it is mentioned separately by Cologne in the manga) and Cologne does make mention to a cold aura more than once.

I don't know Takahashi's stance on Budhism/Shintoism since she makes mention to Buddhist things, Shinto things, Taoist things and Christian things in the manga (for example Ranma goes to both Shinto and Buddhist temples, a taoist priest is the one with the oni, both a shinto and a buddhist shrine are in the Tendo house, Kasumi wears a cross, etc...) . Though it is likely a mix since most Japanese are more than one religion and they really don't get why the rest of the world isn't (for example they don't see why you can't be Jewish, Muslim, and Christian at the same time).

I guess we'll leave it at that, then. I'll admit that history and anthropology aren't anything that I specialize in, by any measure, so... And there's nothing to be done about how we interpret the words and illustrations used in relation to those techniques. It was meant to be an opinion poll, anyway, but... I really have too much time on my hands. <_<;

It's normal for the Japanese to practice more than one religion at once? Huh. That's interesting. I should look into that.