Ratings for fukufics

[Crescent Pulsar S]

I was thinking that being able to leave comments isn't really enough, mostly because people don't seem all that inclined to. People are more likely to point and click at something with their mouse once or twice than use their keyboard. On the other end of it, people are also more likely to spare a glance at a rating than go through comments (if there are any).

Or, if that's too much, at least add something like that for fukufics that are actually finished, since there aren't too many of those and they could do with some special treatment.

[Konsaki]

I was thinking that being able to leave comments isn't really enough, mostly because people don't seem all that inclined to. People are more likely to point and click at something with their mouse once or twice than use their keyboard. On the other end of it, people are also more likely to spare a glance at a rating than go through comments (if there are any).

I personally wouldn't care for a 'rating system' because a numerical value only gives the very basic information of quality without giving the substance unnecessary to give a meaningful review.
If you gave a story 4/10 while I give it a 9/10, does it really say if the story is good or not or just show that I liked it more than you.
What if the story had very bad grammar but the author still was able to portray an epic adventure? What score should you give?
What if I had just replied with "I give your suggestion a 3/10"?

[PCHeintz72]

Personally, BAD IDEA, or more accurately, not worth the trouble... I've learned long ago to ignore such ranking systems... I merely read what I like, and do not read what I don't... having others indicate a like or dislike does not mean *I* will like or dislike.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

Both of those responses either assume that a rating system replaces comments/reviews, or undermines them somehow. It wouldn't. I'm suggesting to add the feature, hence why I said that leaving comments isn't enough. This is for the benefit of people who are not inclined to write or read, for whatever reason. If you ignore ratings already, you can continue to do so; no one's going to force you to use them either way.

There's also the assumption that reviews are better, because it depends on the person. From personal experience I can confidently say that reviews do not always help, whether the reviewer was trying to be helpful or not. Reviews are often opinion-oriented, much like a rating, except it takes longer to figure out what said opinion is. The quality of a review is not guaranteed, whereas a rating is simpler, more straightforward and has no chance of spoilers for those who wish to avoid them.

I would like to see a rating system added to enhance the decision-making process. After all, not everyone is going to want to sift through reviews in order to get an idea of whether they want to read something or not, or risk having the story spoiled for them. They also may not write helpful information that would benefit someone who wants to see if the story is worth reading. For instance, if I saw a 2.8/10 overall rating for a story, I have three choices: one, go no further, which would save me time reading reviews; two, ignore it, and see what the reviews have to say; and three, consider both before making a decision.

I don't see a downside to this. Considering how small our niche is, and how few reviews there are, what is there to lose? Actually, do the reviews even exist anymore? I can't seem to find any. If they're gone, I'd suggest adding them back along with a rating system.

[Konsaki]

I don't see a downside to this.

The major downside is this: People are lazy.
If there's an option to only give text reviews, they will either make one or not depending on how much they feel inclined to do so. As soon as you add the option to add a numerical value or Vote Up/Down, you invite those who would previously write a review with thought to just hit 10/10 or Up Vote without giving any real meaning to the value.
Another downside would be the opening of abuse by vote bots to either greatly inflate or deflate a story's 'quality indicator' or whatever you want to call it.

The quality of a review is not guaranteed, whereas a rating is simpler, more straightforward and has no chance of spoilers for those who wish to avoid them.

The quality of a rating is not guaranteed; whereas a review is either substantiated or ignored, which gives more weight to it's meaning and doesn't always have to contain spoilers to perform it's job. Just look at game/movie/book/play/opera reviews. Yes, there may be a numerical value in some of those, but without the substantiating text to go with them, the numbers are generally useless.
If I gave you a blank movie disk and said I gave it a 9/10, would you enjoy it? I'm not telling you anything about the movie, just a number value with nothing to quantify what it really means.

[PCHeintz72]

This is for the benefit of people who are not inclined to write or read

Considering that they have to read the story, I consider this a good weeding out process... Shrugs, I do not see the harm other than what Konsaki already mentioned...

I have seen abuse on a voting based review or contest scenario before... One of the Neon Genesis contests was rigged that way a few years back for example. A guy had a mediocre story, but a ton of buddies, they all gave it the highest rank... so within a few hours of contest start, the votes, which were set up to be views as the contest continued, re incredible misaligned, which was a big red flag the contest had been rigged.

I've for a long time (even before that hack) deliberately do not look at reviews or votes in a contest, I immediately download the stories and read, and refuse to look until the vote is cast. Most though do not do it that way.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

The major downside is this: People are lazy.
If there's an option to only give text reviews, they will either make one or not depending on how much they feel inclined to do so. As soon as you add the option to add a numerical value or Vote Up/Down, you invite those who would previously write a review with thought to just hit 10/10 or Up Vote without giving any real meaning to the value.
Another downside would be the opening of abuse by vote bots to either greatly inflate or deflate a story's 'quality indicator' or whatever you want to call it.

You're assuming both the invitation and the reality of the result. Yes, the negative scenario you mentioned is within the realm of possibility, but certainly not guaranteed. You're not so much arguing a point as you are projecting your own pessimism/doubt/dislike/whatever.

And consider how the reviews had worked out before. There was already a substantial lack of user input. The effect of "laziness" was already quite present. At least with a rating system some of those "lazy" people might find it in themselves to contribute something. Whether that takes away from potential reviews is unknown, but I seriously doubt that it could undermine them. You don't really need a lot of reviews, after all. It's possible for just one to get the job done. But it's pointless if there isn't even one to begin with.

The quality of a rating is not guaranteed; whereas a review is either substantiated or ignored, which gives more weight to it's meaning and doesn't always have to contain spoilers to perform it's job. Just look at game/movie/book/play/opera reviews. Yes, there may be a numerical value in some of those, but without the substantiating text to go with them, the numbers are generally useless.
If I gave you a blank movie disk and said I gave it a 9/10, would you enjoy it? I'm not telling you anything about the movie, just a number value with nothing to quantify what it really means.

I never said that the quality of a rating was guaranteed. Ratings have a different strength, and appeal to different people. It's possible for them to be abused, but that's not guaranteed, either. (Personally, I've actually yet to come across such abuse.)

Enjoy it? Watch it, you mean? Either way, you're making a false argument: this was never about having a rating system and no ability to leave a review, much less having no synopsis and genre available. People can make a decision without reviews and ratings, after all. It would be silly to introduce something as nothing but a rating, because neither it or reviews are meant for people to start with, but to turn to when the general information that's available about the thing in question isn't enough to come to a decision.

Personally, I'm the type of person who can usually make a decision without ratings and reviews. If not, I'd prefer having something spoiled than being convinced to read it and risk being disappointed and wasting my time. And while I'd like to write reviews, I have little confidence in making one that's acceptable to my own standards, so I tend to prefer rating something if I'm going to do anything like that at all. (Which isn't often. I've only made eighteen reviews at FF.Net, for example.)

[Konsaki]

You're assuming both the invitation and the reality of the result. Yes, the negative scenario you mentioned is within the realm of possibility, but certainly not guaranteed. You're not so much arguing a point as you are projecting your own pessimism/doubt/dislike/whatever.

And consider how the reviews had worked out before. There was already a substantial lack of user input. The effect of "laziness" was already quite present. At least with a rating system some of those "lazy" people might find it in themselves to contribute something. Whether that takes away from potential reviews is unknown, but I seriously doubt that it could undermine them. You don't really need a lot of reviews, after all. It's possible for just one to get the job done. But it's pointless if there isn't even one to begin with.

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I never said that the quality of a rating was guaranteed. Ratings have a different strength, and appeal to different people. It's possible for them to be abused, but that's not guaranteed, either. (Personally, I've actually yet to come across such abuse.)

Enjoy it? Watch it, you mean? Either way, you're making a false argument: this was never about having a rating system and no ability to leave a review, much less having no synopsis and genre available. People can make a decision without reviews and ratings, after all. It would be silly to introduce something as nothing but a rating, because neither it or reviews are meant for people to start with, but to turn to when the general information that's available about the thing in question isn't enough to come to a decision.

Personally, I'm the type of person who can usually make a decision without ratings and reviews. If not, I'd prefer having something spoiled than being convinced to read it and risk being disappointed and wasting my time. And while I'd like to write reviews, I have little confidence in making one that's acceptable to my own standards, so I tend to prefer rating something if I'm going to do anything like that at all. (Which isn't often. I've only made eighteen reviews at FF.Net, for example.)

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[Sunshine Temple]

Personally I'd go with PCHeintz72.

Fukufics are very subjective so a rating may not mean much about how a given reader will think of the story.

Though I'll admit that I am biased and that when I write an entry for a fukufic I put my own personal recommendation to the given story.

[Noy Telinú]

Yeah. For example, I would like one that makes fun of the idea and be humorous rather than the super serious ones.

So I would rate the dark ones lower because I don't like angst.

And of course I would rate zero stars or whatever to female Ranma and a guy. -_-'

[Crescent Pulsar S]

Personally I'd go with PCHeintz72.

Fukufics are very subjective so a rating may not mean much about how a given reader will think of the story.

Though I'll admit that I am biased and that when I write an entry for a fukufic I put my own personal recommendation to the given story.

Again, there wouldn't just be a rating. Ideally, there'd be a review or two there, too.

You know, we could go about this like, say, a video game magazine might. We could have several people registered at Fukufics with the task of reviewing finished fukufic stories. There would be several points reviewed separately (like plot, grammar, et cetera) and then having it summed up. Rating would be included for each point, which would be averaged with the summation.

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You completely disagree with me. Thank you for summing it up so succinctly and proving its feasibility. :P

[Noy Telinú]

I would agree to that.

But who? If it's people who write these fics, then it'll be biased towards their fics and such. If not those people, then who?

Maybe only rate the things that can be measured. Like grammar. Maybe.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

Just because someone wrote one of their own, that doesn't mean they're going to be biased. ^^; I mean, you could then argue that anyone who writes fan-fiction couldn't be trusted. Besides, there's people like me, who'd totally diss their own stories and rate them with zeroes. On that score, I'd say that those chosen to review stories can't review their own, should they happen to have any.

As for who, well, it'd have to be someone who understands what they're reviewing. For instance, you're not likely to have faith in someone in terms of reviewing grammar if their own is ghastly.

[Ellen Kuhfeld]

I couldn't be unbiased. There are things I like, and things I don't, and that's going to come out in the reviews. Same for everybody else.

[Noy Telinú]

True...

I guess we should then try to keep the reviewers varied.

One who likes one thing

Another who likes other things

And one who likes other things that are different than the other.

Then you have a score for each part that they think or feel is important to judge it. That way someone goes "Oh, a 3? wonder why... oh, terrible grammar, well, that doesn't bug me much, I'll read it."

Like that.