[R .5][SM] Strained Harmony ch3 (split version)

[Sunshine Temple]

The only thing thats unique here is how quickly it happens, but trust me- you've done it again. The story is now about just how girly Ranma is, and how anyone who isn't that girly is somehow lacking.

You presume that I'm unaware of this. Or that I'm denying that this change has occurred. Neither is true.

(Amusingly some have commented on ff.net that Akane is acutally the voice of sanity who is saying that all that's happened to Ranma is not kittens and roses and is stuck in a Miranda position. Which is *also* intentional on my part. See my intention is for her to be the "straight man" in this story. Hence why I've tried to have her not be wrong.)

As PCHeintz72 pointed out, this has become apparent enough that it spawned its own thread. Which covers a lot of this ground, which I'm also aware of. And as you point out is something that happens in every single fic I write. This is like saying I'm unaware I do genderbending with the main character...

What confuses me is that Strained Harmony is getting complaints of this direction since it's the story where this happened the fastest given Ranma was in with the Senshi and a Nanny in ch2 and everything in ch3 is directly from ch2. But alas.

[Konsaki]

What confuses me is that Strained Harmony is getting complaints of this direction since it's the story where this happened the fastest given Ranma was in with the Senshi and a Nanny in ch2 and everything in ch3 is directly from ch2. But alas.

Wait... what? You're confused that you're getting complaints about... Maybe I'm just tired and need some sleep but the quoted line just made my head hurt.
To try and clear up your confusion, people aren't complaining about the fact that you're changing Ranma; as it's already been pointed out, you do that in ALL your fics. It'd be like going to a steakhouse for some steak but complaining that they have to kill the cow.
No, people are complaining about the rapidity of the change, which you've already pointed out as "since it's the story where this happened the fastest" and gave the least time (word/chapter count) for people to comfortably absorb the changes.

People accepted the baseline changes that happened in Chapter 1 of "The Return" because it set the entire frame of the story. Everything after that is a change from that baseline, with either enough time for the reader to adjust with the changes or not. While "The Return" definitely had a very long period of time where the changes were absorb-able by the readers; "Harmony" didn't just strain the bounds of acceptable changes for me in the given time-span, it busted through them like the Kool-aid man going through a wall. If that was your entire intention, and by reading your responses it seems it was; then congrats, you succeeded.
Just please don't insult our intelligence by playing up a Minako attitude as to why we're disgruntled when we were expecting a well done steak and get delivered a raw hamburger.

[frice2000]

Welp, given I didn't think this chapter was much out of line from the previous two.

Cannot possibly see how that is the case. It's such a massive departure in tone and characterization that reading them all back to back makes my head spin.

Or maybe over the years the story was built up and built up in your mind that nothing could ever satisfy.

No I just expected the story to stay consistent. Quality up or down was fine if motivations and development stayed the same. But that flew out the door at the let's get an even cuter hair style thing and keep it a thing bit.

unwilling to make *some* changes

You made changes on the most minor of issues that were brought up. The underlying character problems were untouched as that seems to be the points you are most proud of. The points you were most proud of? Those were the ones that people think were the biggest problems.

I trust that means you don't want your account deleted so that it doesn't tempt you again?

Really don't care either way. Basically to talk to you about this problem is like throwing my head against a wall.

As PCHeintz72 pointed out, this has become apparent enough that it spawned its own thread. Which covers a lot of this ground, which I'm also aware of. And as you point out is something that happens in every single fic I write. This is like saying I'm unaware I do genderbending with the main character...

What confuses me is that Strained Harmony is getting complaints of this direction since it's the story where this happened the fastest given Ranma was in with the Senshi and a Nanny in ch2 and everything in ch3 is directly from ch2. But alas.

Seriously? Really seriously you think we're having a problem with the girlyness of the main character? That's not it at all. What at least I have a massive problem with is the stereotypical level of the girlishness and womanhood you ascribe to her in each of these stories. There is a rather massive difference between being a proud woman or girl and being the caricature you're making her into in this story and your other stories. In the Return you aren't writing about humans. So you get a pass there. In this story YOU ARE. So you are expected to deal with things in a logical human fashion. You are not. You see I have no problem with Ranma becoming a girl or a woman. Even one who likes very feminine things. That's all perfectly fine. However, at the same time Ranma is a fighter. In whatever form this should stay a central aspect of her character in my opinion. That's why stories like Genma's Daughter a very well written piece ultimately ring hollow for me since Ranma loses that.

Your stories on the other hand, Ranma does stay a fighter usually yes but the trappings she puts on to proclaim her new sex are so over the top and ridiculous that it feels like we're reading about something in an entirely different genre, or something from the 1950's. Is there a reason why the Ranma of this piece has to go so far to the feminine side of things other then author fiat? Was there a logical reason behind it? Or did you just want to get her in these clothes and with this hair and this cutely overweight? The perm thing to start with wasn't something she really enjoyed but she grew to like it. Why was that? Hotaru and Setsuna thought it was cute. And it wasn't so bad on her. Ok. But if at the same time they had said lets dye the hair and make you look like a little kid you think a teen at Ranma's age wouldn't have a problem with that? There should be a point where this Ranma draws a line. Says fine I'm a girl but what kind of girl do I want to be. There should be that kind of scene. One where she thinks about the example she wants to set for her charge in Hotaru and her blooming love interest in Setsuna. Where is that scene? Shouldn't that scene kind of make Ranma realize that she has to be a bit adult? Trying something 'sexy and mature' rather then cute is probably in her best interest considering Setsuna.

In this story is there a particular reason you think Ranma had to keep putting girlishness front and center? Especially when Ranma found out about Hotaru and Setsuna basically being warriors and fighters? Wouldn't at that point if Ranma wanted to be a good example to Hotaru she realize that she could show her a strong warrior kind of women's role? Show her that she can be feminine and serious at the same time? It seems that exactly that logic could have let her show more of her old personality right there. Rather then some of the bits she adopted purely to fit in which just became automatic. You are of course going to argue Ranma liked those and they simply became a part of her, but that in light of the previous two chapters doesn't entirely fit with the scenario you have written. You of course think it does but from a readers standpoint I really don't feel it does. The ONLY reason any of this makes sense is if the jewel Setsuna gave Ranma or Saturn's magic somehow made her this overly feminine stereotype. But if that was the case I'd think Setsuna as she grew to kind of really like Ranma here would be desperately trying to fix it and let her be herself. If she does know that happened and just ignores it and lets it continue she's basically as evil as can be. And that for sure wasn't in the character you had in the first two chapters.

No one who still reads your stories or posts here cares about you changing Ranma or changing the gender of at least someone in all of your fics. That's a well trod thing and something that you see VERY often in your stories. What people do care about is that there is a logical reason for it. If I want to pick out another always "-chan" author for the hell of it lets go look at Ozzallos for a second. He also is a prickly sort who won't take C&C but if you look at his stories where Ranma adopts her girl side at least we can still recognize Ranma in the end. The aspects that made Ranma Ranma are still there right on display. And that's why his stories get thousands of reviews and yours don't. You are actually a better writer then him Josh. You can describe a scene, get across emotion, and talk about a fight all far better then him. The only place he totally smokes you on is character growth and characterization in a logical and interesting progressing fashion. You've just decided to totally ignore any logical character growth and emotional scenes to just run to the how girly can I make him point. That's what pisses people off and turns them off. And that's why this story which has suddenly revealed itself to be just another example of all your other stories is annoying. Really the first two chapters made me go, 'nah this isn't the case for Strained Harmony. It isn't like his other ones.' And then oh yes it is. You didn't sell it as a story that was going to be exactly like your others. You sold it for the first two chapters like the Ranma the girl part of it was less important then the emotional connections forged. And then you pull the rug back here and we just get another girly girl Ranma story.

A story is supposed to be about a conflict coming up and characters striving to beat it. This can be done in a near infinite amount of ways. However the end goal is usually the characters failing or succeeding and changing thanks to their journey in trying to defeat or deal with this conflict. This change to characters can be moderate to extreme. But even when the change is extreme it should make some sense and fit with what has come before. When that doesn't happen we have a story like you've got here. No one, except the virulent anti-Ranma-chan folks who are obviously not on this site, would have had issue with this had you had Ranma have some fight back to these changes or not embraced them so easily with this chapter. But you didn't.

Increasingly it becomes obvious that you aren't writing fanfiction or writing for these characters. You're writing for yourself. If that's the case that's fine but it doesn't belong in the fanfiction umbrella, on FFnet, or in C&C on a fanfiction forum. You can write this stuff as original fiction other places and not get responses from people that are angry simply because they want to be able to see pieces of the character that they are reading the fanfiction for in the first place. If you want to write TG fiction and not fanfiction go do it. You'd get a better response which you deserve as your writing, other then as I've said characterization is solid.

[Sunshine Temple]

Wait... what? You're confused that you're getting complaints about... Maybe I'm just tired and need some sleep but the quoted line just made my head hurt.
To try and clear up your confusion, people aren't complaining about the fact that you're changing Ranma; as it's already been pointed out, you do that in ALL your fics. It'd be like going to a steakhouse for some steak but complaining that they have to kill the cow.
No, people are complaining about the rapidity of the change, which you've already pointed out as "since it's the story where this happened the fastest" and gave the least time (word/chapter count) for people to comfortably absorb the changes.

See that's my confusion. It's those that lauded the first two chapters and then thought chapter 3 was a sudden divergence. It's more easy for me to understand someone who was against the whole of Strained Harmony.

People accepted the baseline changes that happened in Chapter 1 of "The Return" because it set the entire frame of the story. Everything after that is a change from that baseline, with either enough time for the reader to adjust with the changes or not. While "The Return" definitely had a very long period of time where the changes were absorb-able by the readers; "Harmony" didn't just strain the bounds of acceptable changes for me in the given time-span, it busted through them like the Kool-aid man going through a wall. If that was your entire intention, and by reading your responses it seems it was; then congrats, you succeeded.
Just please don't insult our intelligence by playing up a Minako attitude as to why we're disgruntled when we were expecting a well done steak and get delivered a raw hamburger.

There's no obfuscation on my part. I'm honestly that clueless. To use your metaphor, I tried making a steak, I thought I made a steak, and I'm confused when people are saying "Why aren't you making a steak!"

To when in my earlier reply I mentioned how I clearly screwed up.

Also Frice the change in Strained Harmony could simply be incompetence on my part. As I honestly don't see it that different. Maybe you were projecting better characterization for the story than there really was, maybe lacking Trimatter really hurts it that much, maybe I've lost my mind.

In the end, I'm pretty lackluster on this. I've had this thing sitting for years, I spent about half a year revising the chapter. And are those excuses? Sure thing. This is a hobby for me and I'm not exactly willing to burn myself out on this.

And for banging your head against a wall... well you write about how you'll quit (multiple times), then ask for your account deleted, then write an essay.

(And maybe I can sympathize a bit with the bang head against the wall. Though I suspected that no matter what I couldn't actually write something that pleased the loudest voices. And a part of me suspects that much of this anger is for events in the unseen ch4).

As I've said before one of the biggest things that kept me from writing more Strained Harmony was that the longer ch3 was unwritten the higher the expectations seemed to get. And that spooked me. I feared I wouldn't have the skills to pull off continuing it. This got worse when I lost contact with Tri.

So you're right. Congrats.

Doubtless you'll say how I'm wallowing and settling and just giving up and returning to form, reverting to my comfort zone and familiar story-lines. He'll, I'm admitting to that right now.


And don't blame my prereaders (or other cheerleaders) for being a bunch of yes-men who mindlessly praise me. Only half of them even *like* Strained Harmony.

[frice2000]

You obviously pleased the vast majority of your readers on FFnet regardless of any discussion here.

Also if you think you have a problem with hitting old well traveled story paths for yourself why not write a story with none of them? Try to spread your wings a bit. Write a story with a male Ranma, or at least a balanced gender one. Make the curse and gender and sex change not your focus. I know that might not interest you really but why not just do it as a one shot? See what happens.

[Blackcat101]

I agree with the fact Ranma changed way too fast. He also gave up being a guy too easily, and this time there wasn't any supernatural explanation of why he gave up being a guy. Hotaru loves Nanny Ranma and Ranma was hidding but since chapter 1 we haven't seen Ranma going out as a guy. You could have worked that way better, for example have Ranma try being a guy again after a reasonable time (A month or two) Then getting chased by just being guy Ranma and get in trouble. Then Ranma could think that if every time he is a guy he gets those close to him in danger, and give up being a guy because of that (At least temporally or so he thinks). And since Setsuna knows his secret Ranma could have talked to her more about it. Even if Ranma feels happier being a girl that doesn't mean he would accept that so easily.

[Sunshine Temple]

frice2000

You obviously pleased the vast majority of your readers on FFnet regardless of any discussion here.

Aaaaaaannd? I'm happy that they enjoyed it.
But you say that almost as if it's a bad thing.
(Which doesn't make sense as you were just talking about how Ozz can attract so much more FF.net comments than I can...)

And I don't really have a problem hitting the old well traveled paths myself.

But hey, you caught me in a dark place. So congratulations. Despite past history your commentary can still affect me. Granted, it didn't actually persuade me to revise the chapter.

Konsaki, Ellen Kuhfeld, Atlan even LawOhki. Thank you for commenting, and I'm sorry the chapter isn't what you wanted.

PCHeintz72 and Dumbledork. Thank you too. I only include you separately because you didn't, overtly, seem dissatisfied with the story.

Blackcat101

Well yes. Ranma does give in pretty quick. And that's the other thing. That issue comes up well before chapter 3. And is really a part of chapter 1 even. That's when Ranma last tries to be a guy and sneaks in and visits Akane. One problem is that those issues are "baked in the cake" as that's something that would require rework going back to the first chapters.

I will say that a lot of Ranma going girl is her abandoning her old life and directly giving up on being a guy. Which is where Akane comes in as an anchor of Ranma's old life without the damaging baggage. And why Akane is still potrayed as a friend and "straight man" to Ranma, where she's on the outside of events but not wrong about them. There's also the tragedy of Akane's life where what her father and Nabiki are doing will destroy her family too. And unlike Ranma, Akane does not have a patron.

That said, your idea of Ranma running into trouble as a guy is a good one. I can see some spots in ch2 that that would have worked rather well. A shame.

[Blackcat101]

Well, my criticism was more about the story in general than just this chapter. If you ever remake this story, you will have to add a "supernatural excuse" since your stories seem to work better when you have them. I can see Ranma doing almost anything for Hotaru in your story, but not so much for others. You could have made chapter 3 work better if you reworded a few things, making the whole bunny /cat disguises more of a dare. And having Hotaru insist a lot after that so Ranma used the Bunny look with Usagi, not something he would do on his own. I understand this was a collaboration work and is not the same without the other author, but this is what I think.

[frice2000]

Aaaaaaannd? I'm happy that they enjoyed it.
But you say that almost as if it's a bad thing.

I wasn't. I was giving you a compliment with that. How is that hard to understand? I don't understand why they liked it and weren't annoyed by it, but they did enjoy it. So good for you there.

But hey, you caught me in a dark place. So congratulations. Despite past history your commentary can still affect me. Granted, it didn't actually persuade me to revise the chapter.

Sorry that I bother to give C&C to try to make something better, and then say why I thought it didn't work once the final copy was in the can even though I said why it didn't work before it was in the can. You wanted to write pretty much exactly this chapter and you did. Plenty of folks told you what they had a problem with beforehand and it's all still in the final product. You can't complain about people complaining when we have exactly the same problems before and after. If that somehow hurts you maybe you should have actually addressed more of our concerns?

[PCHeintz72]

I'll try to keep myself focused to my thoughts on the story itself rather than get drawn into the bigger mess occurring here...

This review might be late, considering you posted to FF.NET, but figured a full out review might be more needed than nearly anything else, considering what you have gotten in way of feedback...

Usual format from me, read and comment as I read, and usual disclaimers still apply.

"All three of you. Some sunglasses, and black ties and Serenity's Spooks would be just ready."

Weird reading the word 'spooks' come from Michiru...

"Don't be being paranoid Ranma.

'be' and 'being' like that seems odd wording.

"She didn't deny the apron," Michiru reminded.

Oddly, this is the only aspect of the uniform to annoy me...

The blonde finished the bowl and ate a couple pastries.

She sure is packing it away... even for her.

"Setsuna and Hotaru trust you, and I trust them."

An important point... saying that leaves one interesting hole... She does not necessarily trust Usagi, even if they do...

Hestia, and the other Senshi, turned to see the Princess tumble over the edge and fall.

Would have preferred to see the entire battle, rather than skip elsewhere.

I did not care for the Ami/Ranma moment, just did not seem right.

"Love's full of risks, Kimi. If you don't expose yourself... you won't get anywhere."

Woah... telling her to flash people for love....

...Akane's assessment of Ranma's figure...

Blinks... That has to be one of the most unflattering descriptions of Ranma's figure I've ever read...

It's not even fifteen kilograms!"

Ummm... considering a Kilogram is some 2.2lbs... Ranma gained 33 pounds?

Akane rattled off Nodoka Saotome's phone number before turning to face the counter.

I have the feeling that is going to be a major bad decision sometime down the road.

Ami did not have any ideas on how she had gotten her powers, but she had been a comforting ear on the whole "no magic attacks" problem.

I kind of have to wonder how well Ranma would fair untransformed against a Youma...

Akane burst into laughed.

s/b 'laughter'

...hair discussion...

I thought went too long... However... I had flashbacks to an interesting set of 5 videos done a few years ago, called 'There she is' by SamBakZa, dealing with the trials of a relationship between a cat and a bunny... look them up if curious.

Tempering Setsuna's mirth were thoughts of what would happen when Ranma's fully adapted to her new Senshi powers.

That line generating bad thoughts.

... Akane//Nabiki scene ...

I thought this very interesting form a number of standpoints... rare indeed is a scene like that between the sisters done in Ranma fan fiction.

Also Frice the change in Strained Harmony could simply be incompetence on my part. As I honestly don't see it that different. Maybe you were projecting better characterization for the story than there really was, maybe lacking Trimatter really hurts it that much, maybe I've lost my mind.

I definitely do not agree to your charge of self incompetence... I will say I did not think the story quality all that different from elsewhere.

As for myself... I stand by my claim that I believe the change in direction was not really chapter 3... it was actually IMHO started at the ending portion of chapter 2... I expected some of what occurred in 3, but of course not near all of it.

I will give credit, you continued a joint author story solo... I know for a fact a lot of people repeatedly asked for it over the years... but that is a big undertaking... as for all intents any balance in plot/grammar/characterization/etc... is no longer there.

I'd wish you luck on continuing this, but am uncertain given the commentary on it that you will...

EDIT:

PCHeintz72 and Dumbledork. Thank you too. I only include you separately because you didn't, overtly, seem dissatisfied with the story.

I've already made my overall stance on your stories, including this one, known... I remember you thanking me for the commentary at the time... This newest chapter has not changed my opinion much.

Is there stuff I do not care for... yup... Is there stuff I do... yup... Am I going to nag you forever over the stuff that does not appeal that you want... nope.

Which doesn't make sense as you were just talking about how Ozz can attract so much more FF.net comments than I can...)

You've been compared to Ozzallos... it should be noted Ozzallos in fact *can* take commentary and will make corrections, to reasoned logic and honest replies... Ozallos ran into so much headache at FF.NET that I think he simply had to give up there... when any single post by him would generate some 8+ pages of flames and only a couple comments.


Hope all that helps...

[Sunshine Temple]

I definitely do not agree to your charge of self incompetence... I will say I did not think the story quality all that different from elsewhere.

As for myself... I stand by my claim that I believe the change in direction was not really chapter 3... it was actually IMHO started at the ending portion of chapter 2... I expected some of what occurred in 3, but of course not near all of it.

I will give credit, you continued a joint author story solo... I know for a fact a lot of people repeatedly asked for it over the years... but that is a big undertaking... as for all intents any balance in plot/grammar/characterization/etc... is no longer there.

I'd wish you luck on continuing this, but am uncertain given the commentary on it that you will...

Thank you. I'm packing for a trip this weekend, but I'll see if I can get to the corrections tonight. If not they may have to wait until Sunday.

Edit: Sorry things caught up and I haven't got a chance to put in the corrections. Apologies.

As for continuing this story, I've found out some information that gives me more confidence.

Thanks again. And I'm glad the Nabiki and Akane interaction came off well. I really wanted that to show Akane's side of things and what she was dealing with.

Anything more specific on what was wrong with the Ami/Ranma scene?

As for not showing the fight... I have a rule in the story where It wouldn't be about the fights, and thus I didn't want to show them. I was hoping that I could bend the rule a bit as I did in this chapter.

So the apron irks you. I can see that. It is very over the top. What about the maid's cap Ranma wears with it? Personally I think that's up there with the apron, maybe even worse.

Is there stuff I do not care for... yup... Is there stuff I do... yup... Am I going to nag you forever over the stuff that does not appeal that you want... nope.

Appreciated much.

Yeah, I'm not sure about the whole comparison to Ozz. Ah well.

[PCHeintz72]

Anything more specific on what was wrong with the Ami/Ranma scene?

Nothing specific... it just did not come across as flowing right to me.

So the apron irks you. I can see that. It is very over the top. What about the maid's cap Ranma wears with it? Personally I think that's up there with the apron, maybe even worse.

Remember you asked...

Apron, frills, and the particular type of cap on the transformation I never cared for. The apron most though. The cap would have been better accepted by me if it were instead of a maid cap it was a mop cap...

The weight gain of ~33 pounds and the hair styling are the non-transformed items I do not care for...

I can deal with the rest... I mentally tend to skip over the above items though.

As for not showing the fight... I have a rule in the story where It wouldn't be about the fights, and thus I didn't want to show them. I was hoping that I could bend the rule a bit as I did in this chapter.

I did not realize or remember you were not showing fights in this story when I made the comment. Doing it as you did was a bit jarring, and came across as a teaser.

And one thing to consider with Nabiki... if Ranma gets into the news in transformed mode... Nabiki or even Akane *may* make a connection...

[Sunshine Temple]

Nothing specific... it just did not come across as flowing right to me.

Flow in terms of scene pacing of flow in terms of character interaction? Or something else.

Remember you asked...

Apron, frills, and the particular type of cap on the transformation I never cared for. The apron most though. The cap would have been better accepted by me if it were instead of a maid cap it was a mop cap...

The weight gain of ~33 pounds and the hair styling are the non-transformed items I do not care for...

I can deal with the rest... I mentally tend to skip over the above items though.

Mop Cap? Ahhh I see. That's a pretty cute design.

Now for the hair styling is that the bunny ears or the curly perm that proceeded it. Or both?

I did not realize or remember you were not showing fights in this story when I made the comment. Doing it as you did was a bit jarring, and came across as a teaser.

And one thing to consider with Nabiki... if Ranma gets into the news in transformed mode... Nabiki or even Akane *may* make a connection...

And Nabiki might think of it as Ranma or as Usagi.
That goes into the greater question of how good are the Senshi disguises.

Especially since the Senshi, Ranma included, have hairstyles and colors that stand out. A lot.

I'm still debating how good the disguise magic is.

[PCHeintz72]

Flow in terms of scene pacing of flow in terms of character interaction? Or something else

To me... more the latter. If you are fine with it, best just to leave it.

Now for the hair styling is that the bunny ears or the curly perm that proceeded it. Or both?

The Perm... I actually was fine with Ranma as she showed at Setsunas for the Job interview, dressed plain and with fake glasses, as in that bit of early fan art... if the hair was let down that would have been fine.

[Sunshine Temple]

Okay. I think the Ami and Ranma scene is fine. I'll look through it when I get the chance though.

Well, for the perm that came after the job interview. That was the really curly hair as shown in the later fanarts.