Your Destiny is Annulled, Ch. 31

[Cheb]

Please note that the medallion has a poor support of Japanese and falls back to English when it fails to translate something. Thus, there is some gratuitous English (marked with italic).
I will add pop-up author comments later.

http://ranmafics.ru/fanfics/your_destin ... a31e.shtml

[Cheb]

User comment: why is it translating into latin now?
Context:
argument of what is Ahs: a God or a machine!” “Or a
<!!!>deus ex machina<!!!>,” Lahrt quiped while keeping his
attention on the tracks.
Browser: ko) Chrome/31.0.1650.63 Safari/537.36

Well, I was unsure.
In Russian all these proverbs are always translated.
In English, I never saw them used in anything but source form like "deus ex machina"

Corrected to "“Or a god from machine,”".

[LawOhki]

Well, I was unsure.
In Russian all these proverbs are always translated.
In English, I never saw them used in anything but source form like "deus ex machina"

Corrected to "“Or a god from machine,”".

In use maybe but it really isn't english. Like you wouldn't say all the french stuff in the Picolet arc was japanese just because japanese people are saying it. A translator going from one language to another would have a major throwup over having a third suddenly enter.

Also how would this new group, that speaks english somehow, also have latin phrases thrown in when they are clearly not from Earth?

[OSMQEP]

Actually, in English usage, there are lots of sayings borrowed from the Romans that are used mainly in English translation.

One thing that confuses matters is that English is a language that robs other languages.

For example, circus is a word in both English and Latin, but the common understandings of what it describes are different. Well, it is close enough that the bread and circuses saying works either way.

There are a lot of abbreviations, i.e., ibid., et al., etc., that academic usage spread to the point that a fluent English speaker who doesn't know Latin might use them without realizing they are Latin.

The observation that Republics fail when the people realize they can vote themselves bread and circuses comes from the Latin, but is almost always expressed in English.

The more you sweat, the less you bleed, who watches the watchmen, enemies come over walls, friends come through the gate, make a desert and call it peace, these are all things from Latin that are at least sometimes said in English words. Well, the fuller quote is more like and where (the Romans) made a desert, they called it peace. Also the bit about Romans in Rome's quarrels being willing a sacrifice a list of things including, IIRC, sons, treasures, wife, and so forth in the brave old days of yore. (I very much forget the exact quote.)

Sic semper tyrannis, semper fidelis, dues ex machina, e pluribus unum, cartago delenda est and so forth are all examples of things that are most often kept in Latin in English usage.

Stepping aside from Latin for a bit, 'come and take them', and 'Go tell the Spartans passerby, that here lie the three hundred, obedient to their command', are seen in both English, Greek written in the Latin Alphabet, and Greek written in the Greek Alphabet.

Usage in practice depends on who is using, and what they think of their audience.

Historically, an English speaker with significant education also studied other languages. So, someone who wanted to make that clear might borrow the words and phrases without making sure they needed to be borrowed. Or, like with doctors and lawyers, they might have developed a professional jargon that borrows more heavily from another language than standard English does. This went on for some time, and a fair amount managed to get mixed into the English language.

Mark Twain has a funny bit about Americans writing travel stories about time in Europe, with excessive use of foreign words for flavor. Like anime fans fluent only in English, largely writing for anime fans fluent only in English, who add a lot of Japanese where English could be used.

'Molon Labe' is mainly used when the speaker knows the audience knows what it means, and agrees. It kinda is an intensified form of 'come and take them'. I'm not sure how 'out of my cold dead hands' compares in intensity.

I would suggest the following rule of thumb for using Latin in English language fiction. Unless one is using Romans, the Catholic Church, or classicists, there probably isn't much need for the actual Latin.

Yes, there are exceptions, and sound reasons to use Latin beyond that. But absent things specific to groups who have flavored the use of Latin, much of what one would borrow from Latin would be universal references to unchanging human nature. 'Man is a wolf to his fellow man.' These can often be translated without losing much or needing extensive notes.

[Konsaki]

One thing that confuses matters is that English is a language that robs other languages.

I just want to point out that all languages steal words from other languages, not just English. They might change the sounds slightly to fit the local dialect or due to limitations of the gaining language but it happens all the time.

[OSMQEP]

English is supposed to be an extreme case.

I was using a simplified version of the saying about following into alleys, hitting on the head, and riffling pockets. This may have been an error on my part.

English is said to have started as the fusion of the Germanic tongue spoken by the Angles, the Saxons and the Jutes, and the Romantic tongue spoken by the Normans.

One of the standard example artifacts of this is the difference in the names of animals and of their prepared meat. For cattle, cows and bulls compared to beef. Sheep are cooked into mutton.

The categories bovine and ovine, describing the respective animals and meats, are probably examples of direct Latin borrowing, rather than second hand.

English is also said to have a large number of words, I recall that a lot of them are irregular due to coming from different languages.

The following poem is supposed to be a solid example of that.

http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html
http://www.i18nguy.com/chaos.html

[Cheb]

is that English is a language that robs other languages.

I think that's unfair. All languages borrow a lot and intermix during centuries, with only the core remaining unchanged. (for example, Russian has tons of Turkish and Tatar words mixed in)
It just seems to me that a) English is running without a language reform for far too long, and b) the borrowing mechanism is somewhat faulty, which again does stem from the unavoidable dichotomy of the writing system.

Unless one is using Romans, the Catholic Church, or classicists, there probably isn't much need for the actual Latin.

Got it, will remember.

P.S. Yeah, using translated versions allows for some creative applications

"What is allowed for Jupiter is not allowed for whom?"
"An ox, ill people, cosmonauts wearing space suits."
Strugatsky brothers, "Destination: Amaltheia"

[Sunshine Temple]

Interesting style to the train.

Very baroque, reminds me a bit of Warhammer 40k

"Ranma croaked, then touched Akane's sleeve while pointing at the rows ow spikes at the edges of the receding platform."

rows of spikes

"making him look like a cowboy from western"

cowboy from a western


"The air here was freshl!"

fresh


“What do you meaan?” Akane replied, confused. “Why do you think there was someone else?”

mean




Heh, I'm amused at the train-man's assumption that the three are survivors of an attack.


Though maybe Akane shouldn't go "Oh yeah I was cut in half and all better now" ;p


“But still, he was an unusual creature,” Ami noted. “A pink rabbit with front arms of a mantiss... It's even psychodelic.”

psychedelic


Hmm, Akane didn't change her last name to Saotome?


"Ranma's derriere making the gray-haired girl pulll back in with a hoarse howl of outrage."

Hah.

And Pull


While it is amusing to have Lahrt and his friend be experienced in magic and stuff they come off as a bit too calm by the strangeness. Though they do come from a rather alien culture.


"It depends ow which magic gave birth to it. Its armor is tough, you can't break through it quickly."

depends on


“Or a god from machine,” Lahrt quiped while keeping his attention on the tracks.

quipped


“No,” Ami agreed. “We don't know too much. Unacceptably much. We are traveling practically blindly, which makes our road that much more dangerous.”


Heh. Poor Ami.


I'm also amused by the properties of magically infused aluminum

Fun little chapter. Has an interlude feeling. A way to let the girls catch their breath.

[Cheb]

Thank you, corections applied.

Has an interlude feeling.

This part of the plot is a leftover from times when typical chapter size was 4x of what I use now.

While it is amusing to have Lahrt and his friend be experienced in magic and stuff they come off as a bit too calm by the strangeness. Though they do come from a rather alien culture.

Well, they are professionals at work. Can't allow yourself get distracted lest the train hits some behemoth sitting on the tracks or the like. The visibility limit is some 500 meters, so train can't run faster than 35..40 kph as stopping distance should be less than that with a margin for driver's reaction.

Very baroque, reminds me a bit of Warhammer 40k

Well, I was very annoyed at Morrowind at the time with its prop-like Silt Striders that never really move. So I decided then that my RPG should have railroads. And automobiles in the style of 1910s, lightweight things with no roof and wheels definitely on the outside. Shiny, because I discovered then that my GeForce2 MX could do bump mapping. I was fascinated by this!
Low-poly too, because Quake 2 does have that unique charm with its rough, brutally simple shapes.
It's really a eclectic mix I put my many dreams about an ideal CRPG into.

Hmm, Akane didn't change her last name to Saotome?

I gave this an poorly constructed hand-wave for this, will retcon it back into the first chapter if possible.
Honestly I'd prefer them to *not* be a married couple, it's a leftover from Sailor Ranko. That would make things easier. But the amount of fishing for all the small details made the idea it too expensive.

Heh. Poor Ami.

Her suffering comes too close to hurt/comfort for my tastes, but plot dictates, it's too rigid at this point. I will try to show her triumph too.

[OSMQEP]

Recently remembered another one of my favorite Latin quotes that is used as a phrase in English. During the suppression of the Cathars, a churchman gave a certain certain command and explanation. The command, which I recall and can translate, was caedete eos, kill them. The other bit was something I can neither recall nor translate, but it more or less meant 'God will surely know his own'. Hence the phrase in English, kill them all and let God sort them out.

As an aside, the Cathars would probably work as a mythos cult if one wanted to do a campaign set in the era.

I think that's unfair.

I don't see fairness as an issue. I have a positive impression of English, rather than a negative one.

Per wiki, the quote is

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary.

It just seems to me that a) English is running without a language reform for far too long,

The joke is, there was one, it was called Newspeak.

More seriously, there have many, many attempts at language reform. Some have even been partway successful.

Another joke would be about the deplorable influence of the tyrant Noah Webster.

I note below one result:

The Stile of this Confederacy shall be "The United States of America".

b) the borrowing mechanism is somewhat faulty, which again does stem from the unavoidable dichotomy of the writing system.

I'm pretty sure one the major reasons for some of the wilder borrowing is the spoken form. For example, how gung ho entered the language.

Got it, will remember.

Well, I can't claim that I'm the best at following this rule.

Edit: Today, everything I can think of to say on the subject feels much lower in quality than what I originally wrote in the earlier post.

Very baroque, reminds me a bit of Warhammer 40k

My impression was a lot more functional than that. Yeah, everything made out of 'Gold', but if that is the best material for the job, cheap, and easy to work with, it will get used. One engine up near the front, because super gold gives a lot of power, and the closer to the front, the better for quick stops. Plus a combination gun platform/cow catcher car at front and back, because they need the size, and because of better firing arcs.

Only thing that bugs me is that the cow catcher car might be too light for some of the collisions it seems to have.

Last chapter, I was reminded of Exalted due to the green sun, and the golden supermetal, but exalted uses those in a very different way.

Rereading, it is clear my impression above is at least partly wrong.

Sharp highlights playing on the untarnished gold of its angular bulk criss-crossed with rivets, belching clouds of steam, it was approaching rapidly.

I couldn't get Control-Enter to work on this selection, then I couldn't nail down what I thought might be off about the clauses. At this point I'm not sure that there is an issue.

The train driver turned out to be a tanned man in his thirties, with light hair. His athletic body, stylish boots and jeans with a checkered shirt were making him look like a cowboy from a western. The only things lacking were a hat and a revolver.

Well, chaps and a bandanna, just off the top of my head.

“So this is aluminum?” Ami repeated in shock, looking dumbfounded which was quite unusual for her.

I really like this world building. Also the explanation.

Is this world's Aluminum still as thermally conductive? I imagine that might pose issues for engineering heat engines, Not to mention as protection against thermal attacks.

Vyrm sounds like a dragon.

[Cheb]

Well, chaps and a bandanna, just off the top of my head.

I meant an unrealistically cliched "cowboy" [cue Marty McFly entering the saloon in his "cowboy" boots] (Back to the Future 3)
Will add the word "cliched".


Well, there's always the equivalent of "use more gun" : most parts of that locomotive have 3x the thickness of what it would be if it was iron. A locomotive must be heavy to provide necessary traction [remembers the thick cast-iron hull of his toy railroad's locomotive ] Yeah. Any steam locomotive should have been built not with simply durability in mind but matching the required weight. Then again, they could have just increased the projected pressure until the increase in boiler walls thickness matched the desired weight.
The magical boiler is simpler and thus weighs less, but they have added armor layer around it.

still as thermally conductive? I imagine that might pose issues for engineering heat engines,

Again, 3x thickness.
Plus, they have power to spare, so the engine is optimized for conserving water, not the fire magic of which they have a surplus they don't know what to do with. They use heat engines not because they can't build anything more sophisticated but because they have cheap heat energy to burn. Sadly, the story will most probably go over this.
There are much less powerful Stirling-electric locomotives working on exotic fluids used in remote areas with less population where water is really priceless.

Only thing that bugs me is that the cow catcher car might be too light for some of the collisions it seems to have.

It's a compromise. It is heavy enough to throw a common mob off without noticing it, but everything except the locomotive is built so that it could be ditched and moved aside for the train to go on.

My impression was a lot more functional than that.

Well, the cargo cars have see-through wheels, to make them lighter. But the locomotive is a solid chunk.
I will probably add a paragraph or two to make it obvious

due to the green sun,

The suns are white, the green is from unnatural scattering in the atmosphere.
Will correct to make this clear.

Vyrm sounds like a dragon.

Well, I was planning it like this: a string of rigid non-animated meshes, each with the same set of bony/spindly protrusions giving the whole construct a spine-like appearance. There are no wings, no paws, just an undulating, levitating body that grows thinner towards the tail end. This way it's much easier to animate, then you only need three 3d models for it: a head, a body segment, a tail tip. Much less work designing it like this.
I first got the idea while planning to redesign my Zmey Gorynych boss with its "lets overlap many pitch-black sprites to get a believable pitch-black 3d shape" just before I abandoned my game engine for MS-DOS.
No wyrms will show in the story, though. It's again 'tell, not show'

In general, this chapter may have suffered from compression as I fought tooth and nail to make it less wordy.

[Té Rowan]

For some odd reason, the Deitch/Hlavatý book "A Visit From A Turtle" came to mind while reading this thread.

[Cheb]

Performed some surgical correction strikes:

The dawn was brightening quickly, turning into a blinding spot. Soon, a tiny bluish-blinding disc crawled up from the haze, painting the sky a gentle green color.

When all six appeared in the sky, it became quite hot. A whitish haze covered the green sky, making the sterile white light soft and even, but no less searing.

After the first platform bearing the plow and the cannon, large blades bristling along its edges, a massive steam locomotive followed. It looked like an armored strongbox with canted corners, a prominent rectangular cab on its front protruding forward and to the sides like the bridge of a ship. There was no smoke, no chimney, only steam puffing from between the solid, massive wheels and rods pumping busily. Armored sh

After that, a long line of boxy cargo cars followed, the doors closed tightly. The open-work thin-rimmed wheels were out of the picture against the utilitarian primitivism of the car bodies.

were making him look like a typical cliched cowboy from a western.

I published this chapter, I wanted to present the next one but... Oh crap it's only 25% translated. On the other hand, my rotating cube became that much more badass The automatic rendering quality control really works now, the quirks of videocards made in 2003 are taken into account... What did I forget? Oh. I have no 9500..9800 series Radeon I found one at work nailed to the wall as a decoration, so I pried it off but it only shows trashed memory static Broken, in other words. But I so want my epic software to support ancient videocards and run in Windows 98 No luck. No antique Radeon, and the Win98 SE disk won't boot after I botched the pen tablet driver installation. Had ordered the lowest of the low in the shop, 256Mb Sapphire HD2600XT to console myself -- but alas, even that is too modern

[LawOhki]

I published this chapter, I wanted to present the next one but... Oh crap it's only 25% translated. On the other hand, my rotating cube became that much more badass The automatic rendering quality control really works now, the quirks of videocards made in 2003 are taken into account... What did I forget? Oh. I have no 9500..9800 series Radeon I found one at work nailed to the wall as a decoration, so I pried it off but it only shows trashed memory static Broken, in other words. But I so want my epic software to support ancient videocards and run in Windows 98 No luck. No antique Radeon, and the Win98 SE disk won't boot after I botched the pen tablet driver installation. Had ordered the lowest of the low in the shop, 256Mb Sapphire HD2600XT to console myself -- but alas, even that is too modern

I still have a radeon 9700 pro that works.