Immortal (Effectively) at the fall of Crystal Tokyo.

[Cheb]

I personally think that the anime CT is too buggy and should be avoided. There's virtually no information about it.

No children could be the result of a budget limitation. After all, SM anime shows *Tokyo* as mostly empty most of the time, which is untrue.

If you use the manga CT, then it's everyone is immortal, not just Ranma, and your plot can't be applied.
There also *are* children chibi-Usa's age to tease her about being "fake princess" because she has no powers. We even see some of them killed by Black Moon.
"Mommy! Mommy!" [cries over her mother's disfigured corpse]
"Shut up!" [grabs her by the throat, reducing her to a withered husk].
Good luck pairing Ranma with *this* BM.
Wait. It can make for a mighty drama if he leads them at first, then they get seduced/subverted by Wiseman who turns them into the inhuman monsters as shown in the manga. Then Ranma would have to side with the Senshi to stop his former comrades.

[Zwzn]

I personally think that the anime CT is too buggy and should be avoided. There's virtually no information about it.

Being light on details makes the anime version of Crystal Tokyo far less unpleasant, and fewer details means fewer plot holes.

You actually posted scans that show the Manga White Moon Royals went out of their way to make the Black Moon the threat they became, and then demonized them: http://www.fukufics.com/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=7088&start=60. Handing your greatest enemy(Deathphantom) a weapon that you know he will use against you, and arming dissidents(Black Moon clan) with WMD(spaceships) is down right stupid.

No children could be the result of a budget limitation. After all, SM anime shows *Tokyo* as mostly empty most of the time, which is untrue.

Chibi-Usa not having contact with the outside world is actually very realistic. This was how the Emperor of Japan was treated, and what helped cause the French Revolution.

It really doesn't make sense for people to be treating Chibi-Usa poorly even if people think she is just adopted.

There also *are* children chibi-Usa's age to tease her about being "fake princess" because she has no powers. .

Their Queen doesn't have powers either so this is just one of those stupid manga plot holes, but they're just ignorant sheep.

Why the hell would anyone be so rude to their goddess's adopted daughter for no reason?

Why would Chibi-Usa be out and about without a guard?

Just more proof that more detail is not always a good thing.

We even see some of them killed by Black Moon.
"Mommy! Mommy!" [cries over her mother's disfigured corpse]
"Shut up!" [grabs her by the throat, reducing her to a withered husk].
Good luck pairing Ranma with *this* BM.
Wait. It can make for a mighty drama if he leads them at first, then they get seduced/subverted by Wiseman who turns them into the inhuman monsters as shown in the manga. Then Ranma would have to side with the Senshi to stop his former comrades.

One thing to keep in mind is that the citizens of Crystal Tokyo are dissolving like Code name Sailor V/Beryl arc youma. This could mean they aren't actually alive. This could be a reason to side against the White Moon.


Ranma would never side with the Black Moon who were lead by Diamond and DeathPhantom, but the Black Moon clan who left the Earth was clearly a different group of people then those who attacked later. Had the Black Moon who left the Earth had the same mentality as the Black Moon who later attack the Earth, they would have been chucking asteroids at the Earth.

[Cheb]

and arming dissidents(Black Moon clan) with WMD(spaceships) is down right stupid.

Straw man.
There's nowhere to be seen about the means of interplanetary travel BM has. Nor about NQS handing them anything. If you pay attention, there's no definite proof that BM members even use spaceships. They could be traveling on their own using portals -- they are that powerful. The swarm of black crystalline ships is AFAIR an anime-only thing.

This could mean they aren't actually alive. This could be a reason to side against the White Moon.

Are you really asking it for someone to invoke Hitler? With "not really human" and all.
Compare to all these cries about protecting youma rights.

Why would Chibi-Usa be out and about without a guard?

Is it so hard to imagine environment that is *safe* ? A couple magnitudes safer than the modern Japanese cities or the cities of USSR in its prime?

Their Queen doesn't have powers either

BS. She battled that dictator and defeated him.

ad the Black Moon who left the Earth had the same mentality as the Black Moon who later attack the Earth, they would have been chucking asteroids at the Earth.

?
They *did* use something more effective. A black crystal that killed everyone on Earth. Should I remind you of them referring to Earth as "dead planet"?

, but the Black Moon clan who left the Earth was clearly a different group of people

Read. "Many times they have begun battles and killed many". Sure a nice group for Ranma to associate with.

[Zwzn]

Straw man.

A straw man is when someone warps an argument to the point it is no longer valid. I've done no such thing by pointing out things shown by evidence you provided.

I have no idea as to what you are talking about? This is about trying ti iron out an idea for a fanfic. If you don't like the evil actions the "Heros" may take after the series ends that anti my problem.

I fail to see where I distort anything you say. I am merely pointing out things you don't like.

There's nowhere to be seen about the means of interplanetary travel BM has. Nor about NQS handing them anything. If you pay attention, there's no definite proof that BM members even use spaceships. They could be traveling on their own using portals -- they are that powerful. The swarm of black crystalline ships is AFAIR an anime-only thing.

At least one large ship makes the most sense.

The Black Moon would be hundreds if not thousands of people leaving the Earth. They would need a large amount of supplies while setting up their colony on Nemesis.

They wouldn't know if they would be able to grow food or find water on Nemesis. They would need to bring something like hydroponics.

Opening a portal like you suggest would be dangerous without knowing exactly where that portal will lead. You need insanely exact coordinates and maps, or you could easily miss Nemesis entirely, or end up inside it.

If the Black Moon has the technology or powers to teleport or open portal like you suggest then the Crystal Tokyo royals can't stop them already.

Actually living in ships would also explain why the Black Moon and Nemesis couldn't just be destroyed by Sailor Saturn, and use of the gates of time.

Are you really asking it for someone to invoke Hitler? With "not really human" and all.
Compare to all these cries about protecting youma rights.

Straw Man

Since you bring it up, Youma are people too. They think, they feel, they live, but they just aren't aren't humans and are often ugly so it's okay to kill them.

I was talking about the unnatural "youma like" way the citizens of Crystal Tokyo seem to behave after being killed. If they turn to dust when cut off from the Silver Crystal's power it is very possible the Silver Crystal was the only thing holding them together.

Actually the Hitler analogy works disturbingly well. The senshi were planning on killing off the Black Moon before they even created Crystal Tokyo after all, created problems to use as justification for the genocide, and used the problems to retroactively come to power. It doesn't help that Usagi created a false public persona as well. It isn't like the senshi during the series don't show signs they could become monsters as bad as what they fight, and it's not like the monster usually sees itself as the monster.

s it so hard to imagine environment that is *safe* ? A couple magnitudes safer than the modern Japanese cities or the cities of USSR in its prime?

Forgetting about the Black Moon aren't you? When you have civil unrest that is getting worse and people are dying it is a bad idea to let the princess wonder around alone because she would be a prime target for the rebels, but I was just thinking in terms of it being a bad idea to leave children unattended for more mundane reasons like what if Chibi-Usa was to break a leg or something.

If it was safe enough for Chibi-Usa to go out unattended then the Black Moon can't have been the evil threat we are told they are.

We know from the treatment Chibi-Usa receives that evil is alive and well in the hearts and minds loyal citizens of Crystal Tokyo.

BS. She battled that dictator and defeated him.

Calm down. We are talking about a fictional setting, and talking about writing a crossover fanfic

All they did was trade one dictator for another. Usagi took power after beating up the old boss, Tokyo(and possibly all of Japan) is heavily populated by reborn Moonites. Usagi only became queen because of who her mother was in her past life, and the delusion that might makes right. Certainly no George Washington.

All of Usagi's powers come from her weapons/tools, and to a slightly lesser extent it is also true for the other senshi. This is bluntly shown in the Black Moon arc, and talked about in Code name: Sailor V. Take away usagi's Moon Kingdom technology, and all you have is a useless underachieving ditz, Chibi-Usa is not any different.

Read. "Many times they have begun battles and killed many". Sure a nice group for Ranma to associate with.

And yet it was safe for Chibi-Usa to wonder around unattended. You don't see a contradiction here? How do the Crystal Tokyo royal family define battles, and how many is many? Sounds like weasel words being used to demonize the Black Moon to me. This could be no worse then some people throwing stones during an otherwise peaceful protests by the black moon.

We know the loyal citizens of Crystal Tokyo can be/are assholes, and have little to no idea as to who or what their king and queen are. Crystal Tokyo pushed, and the Black Moon pushed back. The Black Moon were an oppressed ethnic minority that the state planed to genocide after purposely aggravating the situation to the point of war in order to retroactively cause their rise to power, and on top of that the Crystal Tokyo government is hardly a trust worthy and unbiased source in both anime and manga. The queen and King are lies, false identities created because the real people could never come to power on their own merits, and needed the fact that most people in Tokyo and possibly Japan are reborn Moonites.

Ranma would get involved with the Black Moon do to his habit of being a champion of the little guy at the beginning, and then things spiraled out of control. He could have been trying to be a moderating force, and ultimately taken anyone who would listen to safety before the Diamond/Deathphantom faction put its plans too far into motion. Ranma isn't the type to fight s hopeless battle if he sees no point to it.

Being the justifiably paranoid person that he is Ranma could have uncovered at least much of this information the senshi had about the Black Moon. It isn't like the senshi are very good against people like Ranma.
_-_-_-_-_
Another possibility is that the senshi killed off everyone living near "evil dark magic users" and "monsters" around Jusenkyo, and destroyed the springs

[Cheb]

Everyone, my sincere apologies for losing my nerve and arguing with a troll.

This post was made by Zwzn who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

This is how it will be from now on and for ever.

[Maximara]

Everyone, my sincere apologies for losing my nerve and arguing with a troll.
"This post was made by Zwzn who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post."

This is how it will be from now on and for ever.

Why? I thought Zwzn brought some good ideas to the table. Let's face it the manga does have major hiccups with regards to logic and the anime is less of a migraine but both are a mess.

Take ease with with the Black Moon family seems to travel between the 30th to the 20th century or that no body in the 30th century knew of Wiseman's actions in the 20th. Sailor Pluto does a real crappy job doesn't she?

Wiseman's goal had issues with the Grandfather Paradox in any case. Which brings up the issue of what happened to Uranus and Neptune as they are no where to be seen in the 30th century we saw.

What happened between the fall of the Moon Kingdom and the death of Beryl when history was supposedly rebooted ala Crisis on Infinite Earths?

We know that Small Lady has been lied to as she stated that Sailor Pluto has the loneliest duty as can NEVER leave her position at the Time Gates and yet we see Sailor Pluto in the past on Earth for at least two full arcs.

"In the anime, the people of the Black Moon Clan refused the purification offered by Neo-Queen Serenity at the formation of Crystal Tokyo, and were subsequently banished by her to the planet Nemesis." (Prince Dimande - WikiMoon)

"Planet Nemesis, a.k.a. the Negamoon, is a rogue moon which those who would later be called the Negamoon Family were banished to when they refused to turn good after their defeat at Crystal Tokyo." (sailormoonenglishanime)

"Used her?" Replied Diamond. "Rubbish! We were banished by the people on Earth, to a cold, dim, isolated and distant moon! It's worth losing one of our own, if it means getting revenge on the people of the Earth!" (Birth of the Wicked Lady Sailor Moon Episode 78)

But strangely this is at odds with the version King Endymion gives

"A great calamity befell the Earth that you live on now. And the Earth settled into a cold sleep. It slumbered on for a long, long time. In time it became the thirtieth century, and with the power of the Silver Crystal and Neo Queen Serenity, Earth was awakened. With Neo Queen Serenity as their queen, Earth began to prosper, centered around the future city, Crystal Tokyo."

"But evil beings appeared who wanted to conquer this peaceful world. After fighting numerous intense battles, we suppressed those evil beings. However many of them did not want to be cleansed by the Silver Crystal and they journeyed out into space." (ep 83)

Since Dimande's version is closer to the manga (below) we can assume it is the more truthful version...so why is King Endymion effectively lying? Also why didn't you set up warning beacons to keep tabs on these "evil beings"? Something just doesn't fit.

The manga version at wikimoon makes Neo-Queen Serenity even *more* an idiot then the anime version is:

"Disguising himself as the "Wiseman," he found a group on Earth who wished to rebel against the rule of Neo-Queen Serenity, and pretended to take the role of their mentor. He encouraged them to go to Nemesis and take the Evil Black Crystal, which would give them the power to overthrow her and take the planet Earth for their own, never telling them of his own link with Nemesis. When the rebels began their attack and appeared in Crystal Tokyo, bearing on their foreheads the same black crescent moon as Death Phantom, they took the name of the Black Moon Clan. "

So you let a bunch of dissident trouble makers leave the planet to who knows where and then do NOT beef up security even though at least one foe came from outer space? Even Kuno is not *that* STUPID.

Also compared to the power Sailor Galaxia showed Wiseman and his Black Moon Clan come off as kind of wimps...so why did a 30th century Usagi have problems dealing with people LESS powerful then someone she fought in the 20th?

[Spica75]

Why? I thought Zwzn brought some good ideas to the table.

If half his claims wasn´t complete rubbish, and a lot of the rest was based on questionable or nonexistant facts, then you might have a point.

[Maximara]

"Why? I thought Zwzn brought some good ideas to the table."
If half his claims wasn´t complete rubbish, and a lot of the rest was based on questionable or nonexistant facts, then you might have a point.

I disagree. Look at what is being said in http://www.fukufics.com/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=7088&start=60.

'With it's unpredictable orbit, its image was never able to be captured" But the King is not only showing us an image of the planet but said that centuries earlier they sent an extremely severe criminal there. How do you do that if you don't know where the planet is going to be?!

"From where it was expected to be, we managed to detect a large negative energy source". The PLANET is the WMD Zwzn is talking about.

Then the king states that in the 30th century they decided to study the planet.

So by the King's own words they find a legendary planet that has a "large negative energy source", centuries later send an extremely severe criminal there and 'closed it off', and then even more centuries later figure out that studying the planet might be a good idea.

Just HOW. STUPID. ARE. THESE. PEOPLE?!?

The manga versions make Genma look like freaking Einstein...Unless they are basically lying through their teeth and doing a really crappy job of covering their tracks.