How powerful are the Senshi?

[Comartemis]

In the anime do we actually see anything that proves beyond a reasonable dought that new forms mean more power?

Nothing absolutely solid that I can think of; in the anime the Senshi only get one new form (two if you count Eternal Sailor Moon); it's their attacks that seem to get more powerful, and there is oodles of evidence for the new attacks being more powerful.

Moon has a meat shield for a reason.

Enough with the Moon-bashing, Zwzn. It doesn't happen often, but the Inners have displayed the ability to dispatch enemies on their own power, and Moon does *not* see her Senshi as "meat shields" nor are they treated as such; the very implication that Usagi would treat her Senshi as disposable is highly insulting, especially to someone like me, because Usagi is my role model. I'm sure you weren't trying to insult me, even indirectly, so I'll just let it go, but please *think* before you say these things.

[Zwzn]

In the anime do we actually see anything that proves beyond a reasonable dought that new forms mean more power?

Nothing absolutely solid that I can think of; in the anime the Senshi only get one new form (two if you count Eternal Sailor Moon); it's their attacks that seem to get more powerful, and there is oodles of evidence for the new attacks being more powerful.

I just remember the senshi getting new attacks as they get new forms, but I don't recall any proof of more power in the anime.

Moon has a meat shield for a reason.

Enough with the Moon-bashing, Zwzn. It doesn't happen often, but the Inners have displayed the ability to dispatch enemies on their own power, and Moon does *not* see her Senshi as "meat shields" nor are they treated as such; the very implication that Usagi would treat her Senshi as disposable is highly insulting, especially to someone like me, because Usagi is my role model. I'm sure you weren't trying to insult me, even indirectly, so I'll just let it go, but please *think* before you say these things.

A meat shield is living things you put between you and something you don't want near you. You know, body guards.

[Sunshine Temple]

Zwzn first you double posted, second I think you may be trolling.

This is from your arguments which while not directly against the rules are rather oddly stated and seem inflammatory.

This is a gentle warning so if you have problems please talk to me in PM.

Just a reminder to be calmer and thoughtful when you post.

[Pale Wolf]

I always thought those where copies, but even if they where not they still would have been likely tanted by Kaos.

The point is that they were not 'healed'. They were destroyed.

And no they're not 'copies'.

In the R movie she was not able to keep that up for long before getting tried, and the same goes for the end of season 3.

Bullshit.

While I can't remember the R movie's situation explicitly, I contend that you're gonna need to prove it, given the ludicrous inaccuracy of the following statement.

She wasn't tired out by it in the season 3 finale. She was doing fine to keep tanking 'till they ran out of daimons. However... Ya know, Mistress 9 grabbed her out of nowhere?

Never got tired.

Both times I don't recal the targets trying to get out of the way.

'Trying to get out of the way' doesn't work when a massive attack sweeps over where you are and everywhere you could possibly be within one second.

You don't dodge an area-of-effect attack.

Chibi-Usa was messing with the ships power source.

Irrespective to the fact that Usagi won the beam battle. Rubeus's beam was his own, not the ship's.

I don't recall seeing what went on inside the building after the door closed.

You yourself are the one who decided it was an attack performed by Venus. You were arguing against it being her damage resistance against said explosion, remember?

Question: Are you honestly so easily forgetting all this, or are you just trying to put up 35 different kinds of argument in an attempt to obfuscate the issue?

I just remember the senshi getting new attacks as they get new forms, but I don't recall any proof of more power in the anime.

The fact that their initial-form attacks were explicitly not powerful enough against the monster of the year? And that once they transformed, they kicked its ass?

Remember the first two eps of S? First ep, Usagi vs Daimon: pwnt. Second ep, Usagi vs Daimon: pwnt again. Powerup. Usagi vs Daimon round two: win, and easy.

[Zwzn]

I always thought those where copies, but even if they where not they still would have been likely tanted by Kaos.

The point is that they were not 'healed'. They were destroyed.

And no they're not 'copies'..

I thought that Galaxai took the Sailor Crystals from them, and killed them? Am I mixing anime and Manga? I haven't seen the manga in years.

In the R movie she was not able to keep that up for long before getting tried, and the same goes for the end of season 3.

Bullshit.

While I can't remember the R movie's situation explicitly, I contend that you're gonna need to prove it, given the ludicrous inaccuracy of the following statement.

She wasn't tired out by it in the season 3 finale. She was doing fine to keep tanking 'till they ran out of daimons. However... Ya know, Mistress 9 grabbed her out of nowhere?

Never got tired..

In the R movie the senshi "fly" to the planetiod and get attacked by one flying enemy, and use a sailor planet attack to take it down because it was the only attack they could use at the time as I recall.

Then they land and look around, and they see lots and lots of the evil flowers. Then monsters start coming out of the ground and the senshi get surrounded.

Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, and Mars fire beams of energy at the waves of monsters, and take down large numbers of enemies, but they could see it wasn't going to be enough. Moon used her septer and fired turning about 360%, and seeming to take out everything it hit, but they just kept coming, and the senshi where tiring fast. After a short battle the senshi got captured.

The senshi went all out, but could not keep it up for long, and got overwhelmed.

I haven't watched the Eps before Moon is in the lab for a while, but I remember Moon just standing there whatching the inners fight before they set up the sailor box. Then Nine grabing Moon's throat, and pulls her through a worm hole. At one point in the Lab Moon fires a unusually powerful Moon Spiral Hearts Attack at P90, but it didn't even slow it down, and then P90 shot back over powering Moon's attack. Moon wasn't starting to tire when she stopped?

Both times I don't recal the targets trying to get out of the way.

'Trying to get out of the way' doesn't work when a massive attack sweeps over where you are and everywhere you could possibly be within one second.

You don't dodge an area-of-effect attack.

They where beams that the senshi moved left and right. In the R movie the Monsters didn't try to dodge becuase it was their plan to tire the senshi, and they didn't care about losses.

Chibi-Usa was messing with the ships power source.

Irrespective to the fact that Usagi won the beam battle. Rubeus's beam was his own, not the ship's.

But the ship was making it 16 Gs.

I don't recall seeing what went on inside the building after the door closed.

You yourself are the one who decided it was an attack performed by Venus. You were arguing against it being her damage resistance against said explosion, remember?

Question: Are you honestly so easily forgetting all this, or are you just trying to put up 35 different kinds of argument in an attempt to obfuscate the issue?

Could you please remind me of what thread? I remember saying alot, and some of it contradictory.

I was also generalizing. I can't remember damage being caused when the senshi miss.

I just remember the senshi getting new attacks as they get new forms, but I don't recall any proof of more power in the anime.

The fact that their initial-form attacks were explicitly not powerful enough against the monster of the year? And that once they transformed, they kicked its ass?

Each season they fight a different race with different streangths and weakness. I would expect different attacks to be more effective then others, or just better. Look at season 4. Moon tried to use Moon Spiral Hearts Attack on Hawkseye or Tigerseye, and it didn't work as I recall. Hawkseye and Tigerseye seemed pretty weak to me. Did the attack fail becase he was not a daemon or for some other reason. We know the gold crystal's energy is the best weapon to use on season 4 monsters.

Is super sailor moon stronger, faster, or tuffer then sailor Moon is what I'm asking.

Remember the first two eps of S? First ep, Usagi vs Daimon: pwnt. Second ep, Usagi vs Daimon: pwnt again. Powerup. Usagi vs Daimon round two: win, and easy.

First Ep of season 3 the inners are cought off guard, and end up tied to trees. The monster bites Usagi's broach making it useless. Outers with no power ups beat it.

Ep 2 of season 3 Moon still a broken broach, and the silver crystal is not shining. The cat puzzle daemon is made,and the inners end up fighting it. The inners and Tuky keep breaking the daemon, but it keeps reforming. At one point Tuxy and Moony are together, and it seems Tuxy's power alters the damaged broach, and a new septer just happens to appear that seem made to fight daemons for Moon.

it may have just been me, but the monster just seemed to get lucky. Only Moon got power ups that season, and they could take down the MOTW. What makes you think that beyond the use of that cup Moon got a power up?

[Pale Wolf]

I thought that Galaxai took the Sailor Crystals from them, and killed them? Am I mixing anime and Manga? I haven't seen the manga in years.

Took the crystals and corrupted them to use them against her.

I haven't watched the Eps before Moon is in the lab for a while, but I remember Moon just standing there whatching the inners fight before they set up the sailor box.

You remember wrong. Radically wrong. Which casts your summary of the R movie into doubt.

What was happening:

The daimons were rushing out, the Senshi were trying to fight their way in. The other Senshi fight and buy Moon time to charge, MSHA goes off and slaughters a couple dozen or more per shot.

She pulls this off two or three times, and is good to keep going. Then Mistress 9's hand pops outta nowhere and yanks her out of there.

Lacking their big firepower source, the Senshi then set up the sailor box.

They where beams that the senshi moved left and right. In the R movie the Monsters didn't try to dodge becuase it was their plan to tire the senshi, and they didn't care about losses.

They didn't dodge because they couldn't. You cannot dodge a wide-area attack!

You don't 'dodge' a grenade. You leap away in the vague hope that you get out of its area of effect - and generally fail.

By the way, just to note your 'logic'. If their plan was to tire the Senshi out, exactly why wouldn't they have dodged? Senshi's just as tired whether it hits or not, and more forces are more forces.

But the ship was making it 16 Gs.

But as I just said. The gravity's source wasn't the goddamn point.

The point was that Usagi had enough power for Halation to beat Rubeus's beam. While she was gimped and under stress from the gravity. Thus, obviously, Usagi's beam is stronger.

Unless you have something applicable to that point, leave it be.

Could you please remind me of what thread? I remember saying alot, and some of it contradictory.

'nuff said.

And it might've been this thread, or maybe AM's one.

Each season they fight a different race with different streangths and weakness. I would expect different attacks to be more effective then others, or just better.

Always in the movies they're fighting different races of enemy. With the attacks from that season. And said attacks are highly effective.

Heck, in the R movie she uses both her tiara and Halation, and there's a relatively blatant power difference.

Moon tried to use Moon Spiral Hearts Attack on Hawkseye or Tigerseye, and it didn't work as I recall. Hawkseye and Tigerseye seemed pretty weak to me.

Eh, I don't exactly trust your 'feel' of them.

And they were a different class of being than the monsters-of-the-week for that season anyway, I believe.

First Ep of season 3 the inners are cought off guard, and end up tied to trees. The monster bites Usagi's broach making it useless. Outers with no power ups beat it.

Outers didn't need powerups, they were already at that state.

Ep 2 of season 3 Moon still a broken broach, and the silver crystal is not shining. The cat puzzle daemon is made,and the inners end up fighting it. The inners and Tuky keep breaking the daemon, but it keeps reforming. At one point Tuxy and Moony are together, and it seems Tuxy's power alters the damaged broach, and a new septer just happens to appear that seem made to fight daemons for Moon.

Or maybe... It's just stronger?

it may have just been me, but the monster just seemed to get lucky.

Just you.

The daimon was totally in control of that fight.

Only Moon got power ups that season, and they could take down the MOTW.

Bull. All the Senshi got stronger.

Or did you forget the ep where Jupiter pwnt the daimon on her own?

What makes you think that beyond the use of that cup Moon got a power up?

The fact that she proceeded from 'I can't scratch them' to 'I can pwn them in one shot'?

[claymade]

Herb's snakey-cannon thing? I wouldn't say 'dodged', he was getting pretty beat up in that fight

And it doesn't matter if he does dodge. It's canon that Usagi can sweep that thing around like a frigging huge sword. She levelled an army with it.

I was actually thinking of the time that Mousse was trying to soak him with the stream of water from the hose, and he managed to keep on dodging it as Mousse was sweeping it around. That was way back in vol. 9--and it was while he was in midair on a freaking trapeeze, no less.

Now, if I recall that scene right, Usagi's was the one that won when they went to a smackfest. And that while she was under extreme stress from the gravity.

Irrespective to the fact that Usagi won the beam battle. Rubeus's beam was his own, not the ship's.

Beg to differ on all three counts.

http://www.eternal-moon.com/illustrated/074/074.html

Rubeus had already turned off the gravity by the time of their beam battle. Moon lost their initial clash (but survived the beam, implying that sufficiently tough people can do so). And killing the ship's power source is what ultimately allows Moon to win, since Rubeus had to draw from it to be able to match Moon.

(Note that Rubeus is also tough enough to survive her beam as well. He lives--and is even still quite conscious, in fact. Absolute destruction? Methinks not.)

Which ties into the crux of my issue with what you're positing. The bit about the degree to which Moon's powers are healing-related was only intended as one example of the same sort of thing as the above--that assuming utter, ultimate and absolute destruction for her attacks is not necessarily valid. In retrospect, I probably gave it more focus than I should have.

Backing up a little...

You can't compare martial-arts types like Ranma to heavy sorcery like the Senshi. Who wins is dependent entirely on the situation and the tactics involved - power and skill don't even matter.

Except that it does depend on power and skill. It's just that the assumptions about the power and skill--in this case--are being made implicitly instead of explicitly.

The reason that the fight (supposedly) divides with no middle ground rests on the assumption that Moon's attacks are de jure undodgeable and unsurvivable. If that's really the case, then yes, obviously the remaining option is that they've got to be countered before they're launched. That'd be true in the case of any type of foe, not just a martial artist.

If fighting a martial artist, the fight would hinge on whether they could cross the distance and take her out before she fired. If fighting another "heavy sorcery" type, the fight would hinge on whether the attacker's sorcerous blast could cross the distance and take her out before she fired. There's no difference! The razor-sharp, situation-dependent victory margin isn't because of "martial arts" versus "heavy sorcery", it's because you're treating Moon's stats as being unassailably ultimate in two critical areas.

But add a similar kind of tilt to the martial artists' own stats, however, and that razor-thin margin that was supposedly tied to martial arts vs. heavy sorcery starts flip-flopping all over the place. A sufficiently tough-but-slow martial artist enemy could shift Moon to having to rely on her mobility to keep out of his grasp as she tries to wear him down by pelting him over and over with her blasts to bring him down.

Likewise, the size of an energy blast doesn't make it undodgeable--it simply puts parameters on how fast you have to be to do so. Let's assume (for the sake of argument) that Ranma can't dodge a MSHA. While Moon might thus be sitting pretty with regard to him, that doesn't mean she can necessarily be as cofident against someone who's even faster. That could turn into a dangerous game of keep-away, Moon trying to trap her foe, while keeping him off-balanace--her foe trying to make her whiff a shot in a manner that allows him to make a try at closing with her.

And those are just some of the extreme cases. You simply can't ignore the stats in favor of generalzations about the "type" of fighting style that the characters use. The type of fighting style can act as a modifier to the stats in various situations, but in the end it boils back to the stats themselves.

The bottom line: If a fight with Moon does really stand or fall on the ten-meter line or whatever, it's because she's that freaking powerful, and not because of anything inherent to fights between magical mud-slingers and martial artists.

(Gah, I'm tired. I hope this all still makes sense in the morning...)

[Comartemis]

A meat shield is living things you put between you and something you don't want near you. You know, body guards.

Funny, Zwzn, because when I hear "meat shield" I immediately think of Zerglings. Cheap muscle that no-one's going to miss if it dies. Easily replaced cannon fodder.

*Looks at any given episode of Sailor Moon*

Nope, I'm not seeing easily replaced cannon fodder here. I'm seeing a group of girls who would gladly give their lives for each other, not because of some great duty to their Princess, but because they care about each other.

Honestly, Zwzn. Sometimes I wonder if we're watching the same series. It doesn't seem like it from this end.

[Zwzn]

I haven't watched the Eps before Moon is in the lab for a while, but I remember Moon just standing there whatching the inners fight before they set up the sailor box.

You remember wrong. Radically wrong.

So, when Moon was grabed she was not standing there looking over the battle field. There was alot going on, and one of the things about season three is if you blink you can miss something easily

Which casts your summary of the R movie into doubt.

I commented shortly after seeing said movie on this site that the inners showed more power in it then at the end of season 3

What was happening:

The daimons were rushing out, the Senshi were trying to fight their way in. The other Senshi fight and buy Moon time to charge, MSHA goes off and slaughters a couple dozen or more per shot.

She pulls this off two or three times, and is good to keep going. Then Mistress 9's hand pops outta nowhere and yanks her out of there.

Lacking their big firepower source, the Senshi then set up the sailor box.

They would have needed the sailor box because of the numbers of unshelled daemons I think. There is not a big difference betweent our versions your's just starts sooner.

They where beams that the senshi moved left and right. In the R movie the Monsters didn't try to dodge becuase it was their plan to tire the senshi, and they didn't care about losses.

They didn't dodge because they couldn't. You cannot dodge a wide-area attack!

You don't 'dodge' a grenade. You leap away in the vague hope that you get out of its area of effect - and generally fail..

At least 3(Moon, Mars, and Venus) out of 5 senshi used "beams" of energy in the fight. The attacks would have been very usful at the end of season 3, but then senshi used no such attacks. The unshelled daemons would have been mode down. I commented on this in this thread or another at this site some time ago after just having seen said movie.

By the way, just to note your 'logic'. If their plan was to tire the Senshi out, exactly why wouldn't they have dodged? Senshi's just as tired whether it hits or not, and more forces are more forces.

The enemies numbers never seemed to go down no matter how many the senshi killed.

But the ship was making it 16 Gs.

But as I just said. The gravity's source wasn't the goddamn point.

The point was that Usagi had enough power for Halation to beat Rubeus's beam. While she was gimped and under stress from the gravity. Thus, obviously, Usagi's beam is stronger.

Unless you have something applicable to that point, leave it be.

My point was Chibi-Usa was disabling some of the ships systems.

Each season they fight a different race with different streangths and weakness. I would expect different attacks to be more effective then others, or just better.

Always in the movies they're fighting different races of enemy. With the attacks from that season. And said attacks are highly effective.

The R movie the senshi are basicly fighting a version of the Doom Tree's children.

<P>In the SuperS movie the senshi are basicly just fighting the Dead Moon circus again. Bon Bon Babies where even used in season 4.

Heck, in the R movie she uses both her tiara and Halation, and there's a relatively blatant power difference.

Moon tried to use Moon Spiral Hearts Attack on Hawkseye or Tigerseye, and it didn't work as I recall. Hawkseye and Tigerseye seemed pretty weak to me.

Eh, I don't exactly trust your 'feel' of them.

And they were a different class of being than the monsters-of-the-week for that season anyway, I believe.

Nefy was planing on killing Hawk, Tiger, and Fish. She never cared if they lived or died. Why make realy powerful throw away forces? We also don't see those three do anything impressive as I recall. They where afraid of cresant beams.

First Ep of season 3 the inners are cought off guard, and end up tied to trees. The monster bites Usagi's broach making it useless. Outers with no power ups beat it.

Outers didn't need powerups, they were already at that state.

Jupiter also beat a daemon with only the powerup she got in season 2, and a little team work.

The daemon in the first ep was oddly compatent. Kaolinite's daemons in general seem oddly compitent.

Ep 2 of season 3 Moon still a broken broach, and the silver crystal is not shining. The cat puzzle daemon is made,and the inners end up fighting it. The inners and Tuky keep breaking the daemon, but it keeps reforming. At one point Tuxy and Moony are together, and it seems Tuxy's power alters the damaged broach, and a new septer just happens to appear that seem made to fight daemons for Moon.

Or maybe... It's just stronger?

The attack Moon gets in season 3 does damage differently then the attack she got in season 2. Considering the silver crystal seemed to have stopped working at least for a little while in season 3 I would think Moon's season tree attack might actually be weaker.

it may have just been me, but the monster just seemed to get lucky.

Just you.

The daimon was totally in control of that fight.

The daemon was abnormally good at fighting, and the senshi where having a off day IMO.

Only Moon got power ups that season, and they could take down the MOTW.

Bull. All the Senshi got stronger.

Or did you forget the ep where Jupiter pwnt the daimon on her own?

Jupiter did not get a power up. At most she learnded to use what she had better. The monster you claim she pwnt nearly beat the inners. The inners where lucky U&N just happened to be near.

What makes you think that beyond the use of that cup Moon got a power up?

The fact that she proceeded from 'I can't scratch them' to 'I can pwn them in one shot'?

Where did Moon's attacks from season 2 fail to not kill a daemon that it hit? I don't recall her even getting one off. Moon seemed to still have all the weaknesses that got her second broach damaged.

[Zwzn]

A meat shield is living things you put between you and something you don't want near you. You know, body guards.

Funny, Zwzn, because when I hear "meat shield" I immediately think of Zerglings. Cheap muscle that no-one's going to miss if it dies. Easily replaced cannon fodder.

*Looks at any given episode of Sailor Moon*

Nope, I'm not seeing easily replaced cannon fodder here. I'm seeing a group of girls who would gladly give their lives for each other, not because of some great duty to their Princess, but because they care about each other.

Honestly, Zwzn. Sometimes I wonder if we're watching the same series. It doesn't seem like it from this end.

As far as I have been able to tell sailor senshi filled the rolls of monsters of the week and dark generals in Queen Serenity's army. I am not claiming senshi are easily replaced cannon fodder.

[Comartemis]

As far as I have been able to tell sailor senshi filled the rolls of monsters of the week and dark generals in Queen Serenity's army. I am not claiming senshi are easily replaced cannon fodder.

Then don't call them meat shields. For that matter, don't compare them to the monsters of the week, who actually *are* meat shields.

And you're dead wrong on the Senshi's roles. The Inners weren't even a part of the Queen's army. Their job was to protect Princess Serenity. A queen who wants her daughter protected does not pick bodyguards who are less than the absolute best at their jobs. Details on the Silver Millennium are somewhat sparse, but I can see the girls being raised alongside Serenity from their early childhoods; Serenity gets ettiquet/diplomacy training, the Inners learn how to detect and eliminate threats to the princess, and the fact that they grow up together gives them a personal stake in their job; this isn't just their princess, this is their friend too.

If anyone can be compared to the Generals, it's Uranus and Neptune.

[Seraphim]

As far as I have been able to tell sailor senshi filled the rolls of monsters of the week and dark generals in Queen Serenity's army. I am not claiming senshi are easily replaced cannon fodder.

MOTW are 'easily replaced cannon fodder', and there is a vast difference between 'Dark General' and MOTW, Zwzn.

[Ellen Kuhfeld]

Do you mind of old Cologne here sits down and tells you a story of the Olden Days? *cackle* Okay, Setsu-chan, you can tell them a story too. But I said it first!

A long time ago, when I was a science-fiction fan in my twenties, a radically new SF movie hit the screen: "2001, A Space Odyssey". There'd never been anything quite like it. Wonderful, beautiful special effects. A sound-track that went perfectly with them. Heck, after the Dawn of Humanity sequence, the spaceship was not merely approaching the station, it was dancing with it. And by the end, there was Sense of Wonder seeping out of every pore. Most of the fans I knew saw it a dozen times, in every altered state of consciousness they could manage.

I've moved on since then, of course, but I'm sure you all have similar memories of a movie, a show, a book, a manga, an anime.

The Monolith was a potent mystery-figure in that movie. Nobody - nothing - that touched it emerged unchanged. The apes became human. The humans who touched it on the Moon were - what? Whatever, it spurred humanity to send an expedition to Jupiter; and the last living man on the ship was about to touch the Monolith as the movie changed into its final sequence. [I presume he did, off-camera.] Next thing you know, he's being transfigured into the next stage of humanity - or so most of the viewers felt.

A lot of the viewers felt the Monolith was a God, or a symbol of God, leading humanity to higher levels. I was in an APA then, and a fellow named Tony Rutherford certainly thought the Monolith was a God, and Yaweh to boot. He wrote a review, published it in the APA. And in his review, the Monolith immediately slew anyone who had the gall to touch it. This did not sit well with a lot of people. I, for one, wrote a scathing review of his review.

Now, what is the point of all this maundering? I think it's this. Zwzn seems to have watched Tony Rutherford's version of Sailor Moon. (S)he isn't just disagreeing with us, (s)he is talking about some other Sailor Moon. And I'd just as soon it go to some other thread.

[Seraphim]

Then don't call them meat shields. For that matter, don't compare them to the monsters of the week, who actually *are* meat shields.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

And you're dead wrong on the Senshi's roles. The Inners weren't even a part of the Queen's army. Their job was to protect Princess Serenity. A queen who wants her daughter protected does not pick bodyguards who are less than the absolute best at their jobs. Details on the Silver Millennium are somewhat sparse, but I can see the girls being raised alongside Serenity from their early childhoods; Serenity gets ettiquet/diplomacy training, the Inners learn how to detect and eliminate threats to the princess, and the fact that they grow up together gives them a personal stake in their job; this isn't just their princess, this is their friend too.

If anyone can be compared to the Generals, it's Uranus and Neptune.

A scene similar to that was shown in the manga, during 'Dream' I believe. It started with Queen Serenity holding a newborn(?) Princess Serenity, and then the Inners approach looking between 4/6 years old, possibly younger.

[Comartemis]

Zwzn seems to have watched Tony Rutherford's version of Sailor Moon. (S)he isn't just disagreeing with us, (s)he is talking about some other Sailor Moon.

Of course! Why didn't I see this in the first place?!

And heck, I know just the place for Zwzn to take his opinions on Usagi; Moonromance.com's forums. Let's see how long he can slander her character before the locals barbeque him with flames.