Crystal Tokyo

[antimatterenergy]

Amother reason why camera's may not of caught them at least when mercury was around is because her computer is more than capable of locating them.

[Shadell]

Amother reason why camera's may not of caught them at least when mercury was around is because her computer is more than capable of locating them.

Wich would be valid if the series was taken on a realistic base. To go back to the origonal point, changes like that would make sense, but similar changes or preventative actions would likely be taken with CT if it where a more realistic series. As it isn't the goverment isn't an issue, and people react to learning that there are evil monsters bent on destroying humanity by shrugging and making Sailor Moon into an idol of sorts. If you can suspend disbelief for those, you should suspend disbelief for CT. Of course in Fanfiction anything goes, and people have done far worse to canon and still created great fics.

[Zwzn]

They would have just shrug off her death as unavoidable, and just carry on as if she never was. They where willing to let one of their best friends be attacked without a second thought. They wouldn't have really cared if someone they didn't even know was killed. They are stupd, back stabing, and the ownly things they care about each other, power, and personal glory. Everything else is expendable to them.

They were judged as pure hearted enough to carry the talismans. IE: They don't value power or personal glory, rather they were willing to do what they felt was right, and would sacrifice almost anything to meet that moral standard. Of course it is a similar trait to the terrorists who would sacrifice their own lives to blow up a building, so it isn't necassarily a good thing.

You have made the same mitake the Uranus and Neptune made. Being pure hearted in season 3(S) does not mean you are a good person. It means you are so focused on one thing nothing or at least little else matters to you. It means you are not right in the head.
Terrorists are evil and insane.

[Zwzn]

If the wish was granted there would have been no reason for them to become senshi again after season 1.

Right... and the crystal is - somehow, don't ask me how - able to locate, throughout the entirety of time and space, every being that may come to Earth, identify whether it may be a threat to Usagi being a normal girl, and destroy them all. The crystal's power is finite - she can't just go around and vaporize threats like Galaxia, Galaxia is stronger than her.

Galaxia can't do that or she would have. She couldn't even take down Saturn when Saturn had no defences up, and Usagi beat her. She couldn't beat Chaos, and Usagi did it al by her self. It had to be pretty weak for Usagi to beat it on her own.

The crystal is not omniscient, nor omnipotent. It can only operate off the commands Usagi gives it. Usagi wanted to be a normal girl - it removed the world's memories of the time when she wasn't, but it couldn't identify all the threats it would have needed to destroy because Usagi didn't know they existed. Even assuming it had the power.

So, you are saying it didn't grant her wish because it couldn't?
The crystal seems to be billed as omnipotent.

[Pale Wolf]

They would have just shrug off her death as unavoidable, and just carry on as if she never was.

Seeing as it never happened, I'm gonna have to label this as 'your guess'. And since I radically disagree, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Oh, and as a side note - the reason Unazuki was in so much danger in that scene was pretty much directly attributable to Usagi. If she'd let U/N take a look at the crystal first, they'd have never needed to waste so much time fighting over it, since they could have easily told that it wasn't something they'd need to fight over. Make sure you actually need to fight first, right?

They where willing to let one of their best friends be attacked without a second thought. They wouldn't have really cared if someone they didn't even know was killed.

Are you talking about the same U/N that the rest of us are? The ones that were constantly having second thoughts and self-doubt throughout the entire season?

They are stupd, back stabing, and the ownly things they care about each other, power, and personal glory.

Not an Outer fan?
Well some of us are. So I, at least, would appreciate it if you cut down on the vitriol and started putting up some evidence, before we have to get into a 'yes they are, no they aren't' shouting match.
In other words, put your proof where your mouth is.

Everything else is expendable to them.

'Expendable'? Never.
Just because you're willing to make the hard decisions that sometimes needs to be made doesn't mean that what you have to give up is 'expendable' in the slightest.
It just means that a handful of lives is something you're willing to give up to save six billion.
More admirable than Usagi's ludicrous-power-backed stupidity, that's for certain.

You have made the same mitake the Uranus and Neptune made. Being pure hearted in season 3(S) does not mean you are a good person. It means you are so focused on one thing nothing or at least little else matters to you.

(Notes that Usagi was specifically-stated to have the purest heart in that season)
And also, all the other pure-hearted ones in that season seemed quite fine in the head. And they were portrayed as decent enough people, although that could be attributed to the magical girl 'make the victim obviously good and the villain obviously bad' theme.

[Zwzn]

They would have just shrug off her death as unavoidable, and just carry on as if she never was. They where willing to let one of their best friends be attacked without a second thought. They wouldn't have really cared if someone they didn't even know was killed. They are stupd, back stabing, and the ownly things they care about each other, power, and personal glory. Everything else is expendable to them.

They did actually show remorse as they were dying at the end of StarS for killing Saturn and Pluto for their plan to defeat Galaxia when it didn't work. Their mission seems to be the most important thing to them, though they're willing to betray, kill, or do whatever else to complete it. I can't think of any examples where they care about personal glory, though you could argue the fight at the end of S was to see if Moon had enough power to be worth following perhaps.
*Refering to anime happenings*

I think it was more that they:

failed

realized that it had been a mistake to kill Saturn and Pluto who where their best chances of defeating Galaxia

they didn't want to die

and that Usagi had brain washed them at the end of S

[Pale Wolf]

Oh, as a side note: stop splitting up your responses into three thousand different posts. Respond to everyone in one post, and leave it at that - doing otherwise tends to tick off the mods.

Galaxia can't do that or she would have. She couldn't even take down Saturn when Saturn had no defences up,

Oh, I highly doubt this. Give me a direct reference.

and Usagi beat her.

And Ranma beat Herb. And Saffron. Both of whom were stronger than him.

She couldn't beat Chaos,

She did beat Chaos. She sealed it away.

and Usagi did it al by her self. It had to be pretty weak for Usagi to beat it on her own.

... What anime were you watching?
She helped Galaxia expel it from her body.

So, you are saying it didn't grant her wish because it couldn't?
The crystal seems to be billed as omnipotent.

You're reading a different bill, then.
It's freakishly powerful, and has a monstrous range of different things it can affect, but it is not omnipotent.

[antimatterenergy]

The crystal is not all powerful it's even said so in the anime.
If the crystal was all powerful the old moon kingdom wouldn't have fallen.
We are told that Sailormoon can not use the full power of the crystal and that if she does it will kill her like it did queen serenity.
Some beings such as death phantom aka wiseman are able to resist its power. It took the combination of Usagi's crystal with Chibi-usa's crystal from the future to defeat him.
If it was all powerful there would of been no need to exile anyone.
Also the crystal obeys it's owner and is limited in that regard. It can probably create a utopia but it would be a utopia as defined by the person that held it. If the definition is all people are good and happy it will make all people that it has the power to it's bearers definition of good and happy.

[Zwzn]

They would have just shrug off her death as unavoidable, and just carry on as if she never was.

Seeing as it never happened, I'm gonna have to label this as 'your guess'. And since I radically disagree, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Yes it is my guess, and we'll have to agree to disagree.

Oh, and as a side note - the reason Unazuki was in so much danger in that scene was pretty much directly attributable to Usagi. If she'd let U/N take a look at the crystal first, they'd have never needed to waste so much time fighting over it, since they could have easily told that it wasn't something they'd need to fight over. Make sure you actually need to fight first, right?

The reason for the fight was the outers would not just say why they wanted the crystals.

They where willing to let one of their best friends be attacked without a second thought. They wouldn't have really cared if someone they didn't even know was killed.

Are you talking about the same U/N that the rest of us are? The ones that were constantly having second thoughts and self-doubt throughout the entire season?

You are right. They did have second thoughts, but they never acted on them. It is like the criminal that keeps saying he/she should go straight, but never really tries.

They are stupd, back stabing, and the ownly things they care about each other, power, and personal glory.

Not an Outer fan?

They remind me of Akane, and the Kunos in a bad way.

Well some of us are. So I, at least, would appreciate it if you cut down on the vitriol and started putting up some evidence, before we have to get into a 'yes they are, no they aren't' shouting match.
In other words, put your proof where your mouth is.

They pretended to be Jupiter's friends just to set her up. In this case it is not so much that they let the daemon attack her, but that they pretended to be her friend.
They set up Usagi, and Stole her broach.
They pretended to be Hotaru's friends so they could more easily control her, and when they thought Saturn(wrongfully unless Stars anime is an AU from the rest of the anime) they killed her in hopes of making Galaxia think they have swicht sides.

Everything else is expendable to them.

'Expendable'? Never.
Just because you're willing to make the hard decisions that sometimes needs to be made doesn't mean that what you have to give up is 'expendable' in the slightest.
It just means that a handful of lives is something you're willing to give up to save six billion.
More admirable than Usagi's ludicrous-power-backed stupidity, that's for certain.

They all make poor choices in my book.

You have made the same mitake the Uranus and Neptune made. Being pure hearted in season 3(S) does not mean you are a good person. It means you are so focused on one thing nothing or at least little else matters to you.

(Notes that Usagi was specifically-stated to have the purest heart in that season)

Could you state the Ep. please? I remember it being stated that Usagi had a bright(I can't think of a better word at this time) heart.

And also, all the other pure-hearted ones in that season seemed quite fine in the head. And they were portrayed as decent enough people, although that could be attributed to the magical girl 'make the victim obviously good and the villain obviously bad' theme.

I personally thought everyone targeted by Kaolinite and Eudial all needed a good shrink.

[antimatterenergy]

I remember that part where Kaolinite pulls out Sailormoons heart crystal it is never said to be the purest but it shines brighter than any other pulled out and this is commented on.

[Zwzn]

Oh, as a side note: stop splitting up your responses into three thousand different posts. Respond to everyone in one post, and leave it at that - doing otherwise tends to tick off the mods.

I don't remember that in the rules. Is it new? I just post a comment as I come up with it. If I don't I am likely to forget it.

Galaxia can't do that or she would have. She couldn't even take down Saturn when Saturn had no defences up,

Oh, I highly doubt this. Give me a direct reference.

The ep in wich Saturn's glaive is broken by Galaxia.
Prove Galaxia can.

and Usagi beat her.

And Ranma beat Herb. And Saffron. Both of whom were stronger than him.

Ranma had skill on his side with a side of power. Usagi did not have the needed power acording to you, and skill means nothing in sailor moon. Usagi always wins by over powering her enemy.

She couldn't beat Chaos,

She did beat Chaos. She sealed it away.

If Galaxia had beat Chaos in the anime there would not have been a Chibi-Chibi. Chaos just kept fighting. A beaten enemy does not keep fighting.

and Usagi did it al by her self. It had to be pretty weak for Usagi to beat it on her own.

... What anime were you watching?
She helped Galaxia expel it from her body.

Galaxia's bracelets did not break, and then Usagi had to fight Chaos? Maybe I am mixing anime and manga in this case.

I remember that part where Kaolinite pulls out Sailormoons heart crystal it is never said to be the purest but it shines brighter than any other pulled out and this is commented on.

I always wrote that off as a sign that Usagi was draining energy from the other senshi without knowing it.

[Pale Wolf]

The reason for the fight was the outers would not just say why they wanted the crystals.

Well, at that point it was obvious enough that they were examining them for something, and that it was probable that they'd need to keep said crystal if they found it, thus killing the person.
Really, the specifics of their quest would have meant little to Usagi - it didn't change her behaviour afterward, so why would it have done so earlier?
However, Usagi apparently decided that letting them look at Unazuki's crystal and confirm whether or not they even needed to fight over it took a back seat to keeping it away from them. Because of that, the Outers needed to expend precious time beating her and Mamoru so that they could look at the crystal, confirm it wasn't what they were looking for, and toss it back to them.

You are right. They did have second thoughts, but they never acted on them.

And thus your statement of them not having second thoughts is wrong - and that was all I was particularly aiming to prove. I know I won't make an Outer fan of you.

They remind me of Akane

Ah, you don't like Akane.
Knew there had to be some common ground between us

They pretended to be Jupiter's friends just to set her up. In this case it is not so much that they let the daemon attack her, but that they pretended to be her friend.

Hm. Could you give me a hint of where to find that episode? I don't recall it going down like that, but it'll be hell to find that episode in my stack of disorganized TV-tapes.

They set up Usagi, and Stole her broach.

They stole the broach so she couldn't interfere with their next attempt at getting the talismans. All things considered, she'd have got in the way of their operation - it was that or kill her.
Hardly 'evil'. Basic tactics, although they made other tactical errors in that chain of events.
As well, it is a basic fact that they were just as willing to sacrifice their own lives to get the Talismans to the right people as anyone else - Haruka extracted her own crystal, remember.

They pretended to be Hotaru's friends so they could more easily control her,

I certainly don't get that sense from their cohabitation situation.

and when they thought Saturn(wrongfully unless Stars anime is an AU from the rest of the anime)

When they thought Saturn... what?

they killed her in hopes of making Galaxia think they have swicht sides.

Nasty decision, and as has already been noted, not a well-thought plan. But, if the plan had been better, it would have been the right call.

They all make poor choices in my book.

What does your book suggest? Sitting there and watching the world end?

I remember that part where Kaolinite pulls out Sailormoons heart crystal it is never said to be the purest but it shines brighter than any other pulled out and this is commented on.

The brighter shine was apparently because it was the purest.

I don't remember that in the rules. Is it new?

It's not a rule, but it tends to flood the post level - I once read a series of responses like that that stretched out for over five pages, of just one person posting.

I just post a comment as I come up with it. If I don't I am likely to forget it.

Hm. Couldn't you open a reply window and write your comments into that as you read? That's what I do, at least.

The ep in wich Saturn's glaive is broken by Galaxia.
Prove Galaxia can.

Could I have a number and preferably some place to download from?

Usagi always wins by over powering her enemy.

She tends to win with her 'enduring power of love' or some such, actually.
And battles aren't an equation. There's a massive element of luck involved - hence the phrase 'he got lucky' to describe a loss that shouldn't have occurred.
I'm not saying that she didn't have the power to fight, or even to win. But she had less power, and she certainly wouldn't have been able to simultaneously vaporize Galaxia, Pharoah 90, Nehelenia, and the ancestors of the Black Moon Clan as an offhanded flyswatting action in an effort to make herself normal.

If Galaxia had beat Chaos in the anime there would not have been a Chibi-Chibi. Chaos just kept fighting. A beaten enemy does not keep fighting.

Well... It certainly wasn't a total victory.

Galaxia's bracelets did not break, and then Usagi had to fight Chaos? Maybe I am mixing anime and manga in this case.

Yeah, I think that's manga.
And even then, according to this source I've got here, she - with the help of all the Senshi (which ones were left alive to do it? the Asteroid Senshi?) - forced it back into the Cauldron, not defeated it.
But since Galaxia never fought Chaos in the manga, we should stick to anime for this particular comparison. That was the chain of events I outlined last time.

[antimatterenergy]

The silence glaive and pluto's time staff are broken in episode 197 right before neptune and uranus kill them. (3rd ep from last in series.) Also Galaxia wasn't afraid of any of their attacks even says "Even if you all attack me together, you can't hurt me." Saturns says that she'll destroy galaxia even if it kills her Galaxia laughs and says "Who do you think was the one that revived you?"
Galaxia then tells the senshi that it was her that had revived Neherenia, so that Saturn would come back. Galaxia wented all of the star seed, so she had to make Saturn reappear for that to happen. She then blasts them destroying plutos staff and saturns glaive.
In the next episode she claims to be the legendary Senshi who trapped chaos within herself and claims to have recreated the entire galaxy after the sailor wars.

[Tovath]

Could you state the Ep. please? I remember it being stated that Usagi had a bright(I can't think of a better word at this time) heart.

The Ep is 102 and the exact quote is "the biiiance of [usagi's] heart cystal is related to the pureness of her heart not the fact that it is a tailsman.

[Zwzn]

The silence glaive and pluto's time staff are broken in episode 197 right before neptune and uranus kill them. (3rd ep from last in series.) Also Galaxia wasn't afraid of any of their attacks even says "Even if you all attack me together, you can't hurt me." Saturns says that she'll destroy galaxia even if it kills her Galaxia laughs and says "Who do you think was the one that revived you?"
Galaxia then tells the senshi that it was her that had revived Neherenia, so that Saturn would come back. Galaxia wented all of the star seed, so she had to make Saturn reappear for that to happen. She then blasts them destroying plutos staff and saturns glaive.
In the next episode she claims to be the legendary Senshi who trapped chaos within herself and claims to have recreated the entire galaxy after the sailor wars.

Chaos was lieing. We know that Galaxia was really Chibi-Chibi in the anime.