Crystal Tokyo

[crystlshake]

I couldnt help thinking how Happosai's idea of happiness would clash with others'. I suppose you could assume that Usagi was used as the bassis for the wish and that the only survivors were those that feel within the parametters of her ideal. Perhaps the crystal itself caused the Great Freeze as part of the deal to get rid of the 'bad' people who would be a threat to her perfect society so she wouldnt have to fight anymore. Making the only survivors those that she would explicitly want there with her and those that fit into/forced into the required mold of her empire (giving us the general populace). I imagine that there would be enough people in the world that would find not worying about anything and repetition ad infinitum a kind of paradise.

[Cheb]

Moved from an inappropriate topic.
A). I'd give you two or three good quotations that make it perfectly clear that Usagi won't ever force her point of view on anybody, but I currently do not have the series easily accessible.
B). Who said it was Utopia? All we see is either a view of the city from a great distance or a devastated ruins of it from inside.
C). Our modern society is definitely not an utopia. But look at with the eyes of some man from the Dark Age, with its constant wars, poverty, no medicine, no human rights... How'd *he* see it, as not an Utopia?.. In short, everything is relative.
D). What I gather from the manga is that Senshi are basically the gods of the SM universe. There are no Yggdrasil, no gods or demons, just the Galactic cauldron and the Senshi instead.
Compare: higher level D&D cleric can resurrect up to 6 dead people in one swoop. Neo-Serenity can resurrect 6.000.000.000.
Don't you think that she could just have re-created the humankind as she saw it?..
Or even better, the Great Freeze was in fact the Judgement Day, and the Crystal Tokyo is the celestial realm (or how is it called in English) that Jesus promised all the just to rise in?..
Something along these lines, please, considering how much power is at work (and nature of these powers).

[Climhazard]

A). I'd give you two or three good quotations that make it perfectly clear that Usagi won't ever force her point of view on anybody, but I currently do not have the series easily accessible.

IMO Usagi can easily force her point of view if she sure that it for "Greater Good", "Love", "Justice" or something like this...

[Cheb]

Nuh-huh. She has some amount built-in wisdom, increasing with her power level. She stated several times that her task is to "Protect people's dreams".
Those, whose dreams are to quench other's dreams, on the other hand...
As a side note (anime only): Does Neo-Serenity really rule?.. When Luna prompted chibi-Usa to tell about the future, she said that both Queen and King often shirk the official ceremonies feigning an illness.

[Climhazard]

Nuh-huh. She has some amount built-in wisdom, increasing with her power level.

"She has some amount built-in wisdom"? Uhhh... Facts, facts, we all want some fact's .

She stated several times that her task is to "Protect people's dreams".

And what if, theoretically, she come to realization that "to protect people's dreams" she need a force some changes against people's wants and needs?

[Cheb]

, she come to realization

One has to have a brain for that.

[Climhazard]

One has to have a brain for that.

Oh? And what about this one?

She has some amount built-in wisdom, increasing with her power level.

[Cheb]

Wisdom (WIS) and Intellect (INT) are two independed stats.
WIS is like a gut feeling or intuition, allowing to feel which decisions are good and which are bad, without any understanding why. Odango-atama does have this in spades.
INT is the ability to analyze and understand on the logical level, and make the conscious decisions. Our heroine truly sucks at that. Her only excuse is that she does have a man with a high INT to offset that.

[Climhazard]

Wisdom (WIS) and Intellect (INT) are two independed stats.

Cheb, your obssesion with AD&D almost as big as your obssesion with SM, you know this? ^_^
I real life this two "stats" interlinked together... You just can't have a big amount of WIS without have some pretty good INT. IMO.

[Alathon]

Cheb, your obssesion with AD&D almost as big as your obssesion with SM, you know this? ^_^
I real life this two "stats" interlinked together... You just can't have a big amount of WIS without have some pretty good INT. IMO.

Totally not true.. think about it. How many really intelligent people are there, who are total dorks and never really learn how to live life in outside of their work? How many people are there who aren't terribly sharp but find their place in life and live it well? No small number, really, though I'd say the population is skewed towards the latter due to the relatively small number of really smart people to draw from.

[Climhazard]

Totally not true..

Hm?
Wisdom
1) the quality of being wise.
2) the body of knowledge and experience that develops within a specified society or period.
I kinda doubt that you can attain big amount of knowledge without some intellect...
Intellect
1) the faculty of reasoning and understanding objectively.
2) a person’s mental powers.
3) a clever person.
PS. I use Oxford dictionary.

[Tovath]

A). I'd give you two or three good quotations that make it perfectly clear that Usagi won't ever force her point of view on anybody, but I currently do not have the series easily accessible.

this has been corvered to some extent already but it is very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that they know what is best for every one.

B). Who said it was Utopia? All we see is either a view of the city from a great distance or a devastated ruins of it from inside.

I belive Endymion, Mamaru's future self tells them.

C). Our modern society is definitely not an utopia. But look at with the eyes of some man from the Dark Age, with its constant wars, poverty, no medicine, no human rights... How'd *he* see it, as not an Utopia?.. In short, everything is relative.

So we don't try to call our society a utopia

D). What I gather from the manga is that Senshi are basically the gods of the SM universe. There are no Yggdrasil, no gods or demons, just the Galactic cauldron and the Senshi instead.

Now I haven't read the manga, but we see Rei useing Shinto rituals which call on the gods and they answer but this is not empasized much because it is so well known in Japan. Anyway again so wnat Gods are perfactly able to make mistakes.

[mondu_the_fat]

I have to disagree with climhazard.
You can meet truly intelligent young people (prodigies, for example).
But they certainly won't have the wisdom to apply their intelligence, simply because there are some things outside their experience. Thus, (most) thirty year olds will recognize someone lying to them better than a 10-year old might, if only because the 30-year old has heard more lies in his lifetime.
But I also disagree with cheb.
Usagi is hardly wise at all. "Gut feeling" and "intuition" has no basis in reality, and when judging humans is heavily affected by looks ("looks like a turstworthy person", for example). When Usagi (or anyone for that matter) makes a decision that turns out to be right due to these things, it is purely luck/plot device (or they're just too lazy to put into words their basis for their judgement and instead use "intuition" as a catch-all term)

[Zwzn]

, she come to realization

One has to have a brain for that.

and wisdom. Usagi has niether. She is a insane foolish moron. She banishes the Dark Moon's parent because their dreams conflict with hers.

[Climhazard]

I have to disagree with climhazard.

Everyone has their own world view and their own personal truth . So arguing about it kinda look pointless to me.
But back to the point.
Cheb often like present Usagi like some kind of ideal human being, who, no mater what circumstance is, cand't do any wrong(at least on big scale). Like some sort of Messiah.
But my view on her different. I think that she can be easily misleaded and by her own beliefs no less. I mean, really, she endagered 6.000.000.000 life's to save just one, because she think that this is "right thing to do". And what if in next time she started to think that ruling people as queen also a "right thing"? No matter what people opinion on it is?