The Great Pluto/Saturn Mix-Up Controversy!

[Zwzn]

http://www.jeddy.org/sm/scorpio.html

I thought this was an interseting article, and was wondering how accurate it is. I am not well informed on certain astrology.

[Daniel Jess Gibson]

http://www.jeddy.org/sm/scorpio.html

I thought this was an interseting article, and was wondering how accurate it is. I am not well informed on certain astrology.

It is quite accurate for Western astrology, I don't know about the Japanese or Chinese aspects of planetary astrology, what planet represents what aspect of the cosmos and cosmic principles, etc.

[Seraphim]

http://diesgaudii.genvid.com/saturnpluto/index.html

That article explains it pretty well, too.

EDIT: Ah, I should've read that link you provided first, Zwzn. Still, I think you'll find that Mr Miller points out some things that some people miss, overlook, or don't know about.

[Zwzn]

http://diesgaudii.genvid.com/saturnpluto/index.html

That article explains it pretty well, too.

EDIT: Ah, I should've read that link you provided first, Zwzn. Still, I think you'll find that Mr Miller points out some things that some people miss, overlook, or don't know about.

That article explains it pretty well, too. [/quote]I have read that article. That was why I was asking if the information was correct on the one I was asking about. They both seem well researched.

I was more interested in if the article was correct, and Pluto fit Capricorn, and Saturn fit Scorpio. It makes for some interesting plot bunnies. Pluto has always seemed to be the herald of the end of the world type events to me in both anime and manga. Pluto only appears when the bleep is about to hit the fan in a big way. Saturn seemed to be just an insanely powerful person who is around in both good and bad times, but does not make a big show of how powerful she really is like the others, and would rather just live a quite life so she goes unnoticed until she chooses to appear. The Death Buster arc being a black swan.

I have always thought the senshi and their allies where poor sources about themselves and the senshi, and their enemies untrustworhty, or just as ignorant.

_________________

The senshi seem to have had the most contact with the area that is/was near Greece and Rome. I would think Western astrology and myth would be more accurate for knowing what the senshi where really like.

[Tovath]

The senshi seem to have had the most contact with the area that is/was near Greece and Rome. I would think Western astrology and myth would be more accurate for knowing what the senshi where really like.

Sailor Moon sprang out of the mind of one person, Naoko Takeuchi and she I might remind you is Japanesse. However much research she did the underlieing structure of the story will be Japanesse so look there to find out what they are really like.

[Zwzn]

The senshi seem to have had the most contact with the area that is/was near Greece and Rome. I would think Western astrology and myth would be more accurate for knowing what the senshi where really like.

Sailor Moon sprang out of the mind of one person, Naoko Takeuchi and she I might remind you is Japanesse. However much research she did the underlieing structure of the story will be Japanesse so look there to find out what they are really like.

Naoko Takeuchi is Japanese, and she may or may not have done that great a job on research. Yes, we know this.

That doesn't change the fact that the senshi's namesakes seem to have done very little in the far east acording to myth and legend, and Naoko Takeuchi made Endymion and the Earth kingdom appear to be european, and the same could be said for the moon kingdom.

[Tovath]

That doesn't change the fact that the senshi's namesakes seem to have done very little in the far east acording to myth and legend, and Naoko Takeuchi made Endymion and the Earth kingdom appear to be european, and the same could be said for the moon kingdom.

True but then the senshi's namesakes seem to have very little to with the senshi themselves. For example if Ami was in anyway like Mercury then she would be a freewheeling traveler who had a tendency to come into possession of other peoples stuff though less then legal means.

[Zwzn]

That doesn't change the fact that the senshi's namesakes seem to have done very little in the far east acording to myth and legend, and Naoko Takeuchi made Endymion and the Earth kingdom appear to be european, and the same could be said for the moon kingdom.

True but then the senshi's namesakes seem to have very little to with the senshi themselves. For example if Ami was in anyway like Mercury then she would be a freewheeling traveler who had a tendency to come into possession of other peoples stuff though less then legal means.

All the senshi(Endymion included) appear to be different from how they where at the time of the Moon kingdom, and we aren't really shown what the senshi did.

Ami also has a lot of off "screen" time, and little adult supervision.

[Tovath]

[All the senshi(Endymion included) appear to be different from how they where at the time of the Moon kingdom, and we aren't really shown what the senshi did.

Ami also has a lot of off "screen" time, and little adult supervision.

So because we don't any proof other wise then it must be true, right That reasoning doesn't hold any water. Also if it were following Roman Mythology then Makoto would be the leader (Juptier is the king of the Gods) and Rei would be a master of at least one martial art (Mars is the god of War)
Also We have proof that Naoko Takeuchi was using Japanese mythology (not that she would be aviod it) through the three tailsmon.

[Zwzn]

[All the senshi(Endymion included) appear to be different from how they where at the time of the Moon kingdom, and we aren't really shown what the senshi did.

Ami also has a lot of off "screen" time, and little adult supervision.

So because we don't any proof other wise then it must be true, right That reasoning doesn't hold any water.

We do have evidence that the senshi are very different after being reborn in the form of Princess Senerity and Prince Endymion

Also if it were following Roman Mythology then Makoto would be the leader (Juptier is the king of the Gods)

One could easily mistake her for the leader

and Rei would be a master of at least one martial art (Mars is the god of War)

Nope on this you are wrong. Mars was a good fighter, but seemed to fight evenly with well trained mortal warriors, and at times ran away if he started to loose. Mars was not the best of the best. He was more a bully

Rei is trained in martial arts. She just almost never seems to use the training, but is decent.

Also We have proof that Naoko Takeuchi was using Japanese mythology (not that she would be aviod it) through the three tailsmon.

A sword of seemingly middle eastern design, and has pretty much standard magical sword enchantments.

A standard magic mirror that looks to me to be a European design.

A crystal ball

How do those things fit Japanese mythology. I would expect those things to be of a Japanese design.

[Heaven's Deamon]

They corrospond to the three Imperial treasures, They only one whose legends I actually know are those of the sword, the Kusanagi no Tsurugi, The Grasscutting Sword.

[Zwzn]

They corrospond to the three Imperial treasures, They only one whose legends I actually know are those of the sword, the Kusanagi no Tsurugi, The Grasscutting Sword.

I guess I did not make it clear that I know about those lengendary objects.

I just don't see anything, but a vague similarity, and as far as we know the Kusanagi no Tsurugi, the mirror, and the what ever it is where they are in the real world.

I have never seen anyone claim the senshi claime that the talismens where those objects in the any Sailor Moon universe.

[Heaven's Deamon]

True, given all the western stylings you've pointed out previously, I'd guess that the talismens were her attempting to somehow "westernize" the treasures. Perhaps she chose to use them as something her Japanese readers could understand the refrence to, or perhaps she simply couldn't think of or find a similar grouping of items in whatever western myths/legends she research (assuming she research any)

[Seraphim]

They corrospond to the three Imperial treasures, They only one whose legends I actually know are those of the sword, the Kusanagi no Tsurugi, The Grasscutting Sword.

I guess I did not make it clear that I know about those lengendary objects.

I just don't see anything, but a vague similarity, and as far as we know the Kusanagi no Tsurugi, the mirror, and the what ever it is where they are in the real world.

I have never seen anyone claim the senshi claime that the talismens where those objects in the any Sailor Moon universe.

I don't think Takeuchi meant for the Three Talismans to be the actual Sanshu no Jingi of the SMverse Japan, they're likely only be inspired by the RL versions.

And they're called Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi, Yata-no-Kagami and the Yasakani-no-Magatama.

Also, Kusanagi has been called Ama-no-Murakumo-no-Tsurugi, 'Sword of the Gathering Clouds of Heaven' and Tsumugari-no-Tachi.

[Tovath]

Seraphim said this already, but never said that the Talismans were literally Sanshu no Jing. Just that they were symbolically simalor (this is a discussion about symbolism) and thus Takeuchi is using some Japanese myths, she might not have even noticed she was doing it which helps prove my point.