Isekai

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Isekai

Postby toushin » Fri May 08, 2020 8:17 pm

I just finished reading Ranma of the Shield and I got me wondering why we don’t see more Isekai crossover. Ranma being sent to a new universe is a very prominent plot point in Ranma fanon so this seems like a given. It’s not just Ranma either, the NWC could be transported as a whole or even other charecters, we have Ranma of the Shield what about Ryoga of the Hunt with Ryoga going to Glass’s World. Have you ever read the manga Karate Baka Isekai it is perfect for Kuno. Furthermore there are a lot of Isekai’s that haven’t been fully translated and even some with little more then a few chapters. So you get a premise and can take the story anywhere you after that. This just seems like a missed opportunity.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Spica75 » Sat May 09, 2020 6:57 am

At least one reason is probably that there's been such an excess of isekai anime/manga in recent years.
(this is extra notable by the fact that i have no idea what series you're talking about in 2/3 cases, despite at least keeping an eye out even on series i don't read/watch)

Another reason i expect is that a lot of those isekai worlds are either just bland or simply hard to combine with or unsuitable for a lot of storytypes.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Sat May 09, 2020 9:50 am

Fukufics are isekai. We're just so used to them we think Ranma and the Sailor Senshi live in the same Tokyo.
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Re: Isekai

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sat May 09, 2020 12:15 pm

Wish the author of Ranma of the Shield would continue it... Only Ranma and Rising of the Shield Hero series cross I ever saw, and in fact was the story that got me interested in Rising of the Shield Hero before there was even an anime for it.

Like has already been said... most fan fiction crossovers are Isekai, people just are not used to applying that term to them.

I've read more Ranma crossovers than straight non-crossover Ranma stories... there are a few characters across anime that seem to be good to be able to toss into seemingly almost any other anime and it be ok.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Sat May 09, 2020 3:46 pm

One of the best obvious crossovers I've read mixed Harry Potter with Steven Universe: A Wand For Steven.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Spica75 » Sat May 09, 2020 5:22 pm

Ellen Kuhfeld wrote:Fukufics are isekai. We're just so used to them we think Ranma and the Sailor Senshi live in the same Tokyo.


Crossover does not equate isekai at all AFAIK?

Isekai means somehow going from one world/reality(usually earth or some form of contemporary or comparable) to another.
With Reverse isekai specifically denoting "someone" from another world/reality instead ending up on some variation of earth.

So the exception would be if a fic involves moving one way or the other between Ranmaverse and Sailorverse.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Té Rowan » Sat May 09, 2020 6:06 pm

Hmm… that would mean "A New Home" (Innortal) and "Ranma SI" (Robert Taylor / ottofromire) are both Happosai-enforced isekai since they involve punting Ranma from his home-verse into an SM-verse, though return is extremely unlikely in the former.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Knight of L-sama » Sat May 09, 2020 8:35 pm

Spica75 wrote:Crossover does not equate isekai at all AFAIK?


No, you're right. Isekai as a genre is quite explicit that the protagonist has to be transported to another world or some other form of alternate reality. There are some edge cases involving virtual reality/video games and the odd series involving alternate versions of their own internal timelines and versions (the Nasuverse is probably the worst offender in this case. Compare Fate/Stay Night vs UBW vs Heaven's Feel vs Fate/Apocrypha vs Prisma Illya... which in the third season starts hoping between alternate timelines in on itself). There are also some sub-variants that use the past in lieu of an alternate world (Inu-yasha or for non-anime related examples Outlander or Eric Flint's Grantville Series) so by that point Sailor Moon could be considered a reverse isekai when it come to Chibi-Usa but that particular variation is... rare and more often used in a plot device in a non-isekai series.

Ranma and Sailor Moon (at least in the main timeline) are both operating under the rules of "Like Reality Unless Noted" in TV Tropes terms. You can create an isekai-type situation in a Ranma/Sailor Moon crossover by transporting one of the Ranma cast into the Silver Millenium or Crystal Tokyo, but a bog standard "Ranma meets the Senshi in modern Tokyo" is not isekai because they are both using the same reality as their background setting.
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Re: Isekai

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sat May 09, 2020 9:06 pm

I think the problem here is interpretation on how Isekai works. In its literal form, it is true it is a transport to an alternate dimension. Generally either someone from a 'normal' universe transported, or some existing character(s) thrown into a shared universe (Isekai Quartet is an example of such)

However, that does not take into account fan fiction. We are not dealing with canon universes in fan fiction, we are dealing with author AU's. The 'assumption' that Ranma and Sailor Moon are in the same universe is not true when taking the canon of Ranma and the canon of Sailor Moon... they are quite frankly not in the same universe.

So, while in a author AU it might well be possible to have Ranma walk from Narime to Juban to meets some scouts... it would not in canon. And as such we should probably be treating any such for all intents and purposes as an implied Isekai situation.

Besides, there are tons of stories/crossovers with Ranma specifically transported to other universes. Those certainly count.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Spica75 » Sun May 10, 2020 4:16 am

Besides, there are tons of stories/crossovers with Ranma specifically transported to other universes. Those certainly count.


Sure.

So, while in a author AU it might well be possible to have Ranma walk from Narime to Juban to meets some scouts... it would not in canon. And as such we should probably be treating any such for all intents and purposes as an implied Isekai situation.


Those are crossover and have nothing to do with isekai genre. There's no going to another world or reality involved because the AU already mixed them together.
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Re: Isekai

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sun May 10, 2020 8:15 am

>>There's no going to another world or reality involved *because the AU already mixed them together.*

that last is my point exactly... *BECAUSE* it is already mixed, it is for all intents isekai....
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Re: Isekai

Postby Knight of L-sama » Sun May 10, 2020 3:28 pm

PCHeintz72 wrote:>>There's no going to another world or reality involved *because the AU already mixed them together.*

that last is my point exactly... *BECAUSE* it is already mixed, it is for all intents isekai....


Except that's not an isekai in any way shape or form. Just because they are set in different series does not make them inherently happening in different worlds. Especially in this case because both series use a setting of what is sometimes described as "reality plus". Both series are set in real parts of Tokyo with some degree of fudging of the details (Furinkan-cho being fictional... though Nerima-ku is most definitely not) and use otherwise normal settings apart from their fantastical elements so a crossover author can simply say the only seperation between them is geographical. There is no "other world" element that defines isekai because of the shared background and claiming there is one just because its a crossover stretches the definition in ways it was just not meant to stretch.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Sun May 10, 2020 6:46 pm

We seem to have, here, a clash of religions. 8)
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Re: Isekai

Postby PCHeintz72 » Sun May 10, 2020 8:17 pm

Meh... I'm all for a 'agree to disagree' solution.

Realistically, this matters almost not at all. The simple fact of the matter is that whether you like a story, calling it a crossover or an Isekai should matter not one bit.
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Re: Isekai

Postby Spica75 » Mon May 11, 2020 3:16 pm

PCHeintz72 wrote:>>There's no going to another world or reality involved *because the AU already mixed them together.*

that last is my point exactly... *BECAUSE* it is already mixed, it is for all intents isekai....


When it's mixed because it's a crossover, there's noone hopping worlds. Hence no isekai.

Definition from anime-planet:
"Isekai is a fantasy genre where a person from Earth is transported to, reborn, or trapped in a parallel universe or fantasy world. For beings from other worlds visiting Earth, see Reverse Isekai. Our Isekai tag definition does not include cases of being Trapped in a Video Game, but both sub-genres are included in the Person in a Strange World tag."

And for reverse isekai:
"Unlike typical Isekai titles where a person from Earth is transported to, reborn, or trapped in a parallel universe or fantasy world, in these anime characters from another world find themselves on Earth through similar means."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isekai
"Isekai (Japanese: 異世界, transl. "different world") is the portal fantasy subgenre of Japanese light novels, manga, anime, and video games."

DIFFERENT world. Not changed by crossover melding, different as in OTHER.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=isekai
"Meaning: "Another world"
usually referring to Japanese stories (anime, manga, light novels or web novels) which involve the main character being transported into another world via either reincarnation, summoning, or a god transmigrating them.
the setting is usually but not always, medieval fantasy with swords and magic."

https://honeysanime.com/what-is-isekai- ... n-meaning/
"As level 2000 Otakus, I’m sure that by now most of our readers know that Sekai simply means world in Japanese. The “I” in Isekai is simply a modifier that causes it to mean another world or parallel world."

We seem to have, here, a clash of religions. 8)


Definition isn't even unclear.

Realistically, this matters almost not at all. The simple fact of the matter is that whether you like a story, calling it a crossover or an Isekai should matter not one bit.


It matters for those looking for something specific. And i can guarantee that calling a crossover an isekai, in some places that WILL outright get you laughed at.

Seriously, "going to another world" is NOT what makes a crossover. Fusing two worlds together does NOT make an isekai.
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