windstorm wrote:Ranma also never overtly says he doesn't fight girls or thinks girls are weak (that's a common fanon misinterpretation). He does say boys will instinctively hold back or hint he is less comfortable with fighting girls, but this is more being honest than meaning it as a slight.
Crescent Pulsar S wrote:I just wanted to point out that Ranma's policy of not fighting girls isn't a fanon misinterpretation. Here's a direct quote from the manga (Viz's translation):
Ranma: "Well, when a guy fights a girl... He lets up a lot."
Akane: "Don't underestimate me. Try me for real sometime."
Ranma: "No way. Violent or not... You're still a girl. I couldn't do it."
If I remember correctly, during the story with Pink and Link, Ranma said that it didn't feel right to fight back against girls. I believe he also says one or two other things that suggest the same kind of thinking in that story.
Crescent Pulsar S wrote:
Anyway, if you disagree with me, we should probably just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I can't see myself seeing it your way (unless I'm wrong on what your way is, in which case I'd be happy to get clarification/be corrected on that), and I'd rather save us both the time and effort arguing over something that won't change anything.
Then there's the double standard where it's excusable for Akane to initiate or react to things because of a personal problem, but it's not excusable for Ranma if his own personal problem is involved.
Now, rather than it being a matter of who starts it or why
As for considering girls weak: I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks they're weaker than guys at the very least, though, because he often considers his own female body to be inadequate and tries to deal with things as a man if he can.
They just aren't a good match, the relationship just doesn't work out. Neither is ready for a relationship in the first place, and it doesn't help that if they show any hints of getting along the fathers are ready them to the alter. Granted, that latter point is more the anime than the manga. However, the fathers do seem to pop up and spoil any moments when they might grow closer trying to push them even faster.
My opinion from both the manga and TV show is that Akane is usually more at fault than Ranma for the problems in their relationship.
The irony there though is Ranma is pretty much in the same situation, he didn't know about the engagement any earlier than the Tendo sister did and he has multiple girls after him.
On not taking Akane seriously in a fight early on or when she asked him to take her seriously in training, Ranma is just in a way different league plain and simple. Actually fighting her seriously would end up with Akane seriously injured.
He does say boys will instinctively hold back
but this is more being honest than meaning it as a slight.
I don't know if I'd be comfortable trusting a guy that sleeps with Akane in pig form either.
and makes pretty baseless accusations about him being a pervert
Spica75 wrote:Fair odds I would probably clobber him within minutes if i ever met him.
Spica75 wrote:You are certainly misinterpreting me, but i suck at explaining so, oh well, not a surprise.
Ok, lets try saying it like this, Ranma is very often the CAUSE of their fighting, but it´s not nearly as often his FAULT.
Understand the difference?
Never said that.
There´s also a huge difference between what you call "personal problems". Ranma´s worst problem is arrogance, and that´s something internal to himself. He could simply decide to tone himself down.
While Akane´s worst problem is being hounded by would be rapists. SHE cannot change this in any way, it is FORCED UPON HER.
Understand the difference?
toushin wrote:The bitter end syndrome is what I call when authors depict the problems in Akane’s and Ranma’s relationship as entirely his fault.
toushin wrote:My question why are there so many of these fics. the reason I call it Bitter End syndrome is that fic basically deconstructed this idea.
Pata Hikari wrote:I am angry about Ranma 1/2 fanfiction.
Pata Hikari wrote:Because it is.
Ranma:
- Often insults and berates Akane, quite often for little to no reason.
- Lets other women pursue him despite being engaged to her (and yes, he lets them)
- Has lied to her and manipulated her feelings to try and get things out of her.
Meanwhile, Akane's sins in the relationship involve getting mad sometimes when provoked. What a harpy! In all honesty it says a lot about how forgiving Akane is/how much she must love Ranma that she didn't dump the jackass long ago.
slickrcbd wrote:The first one has him usually only responding in kind to Akane's baseless accusations or insults.
slickrcbd wrote:The second one is a bit more complicated than that. Ukyo has at least as strong a claim as Akane, if not stronger since her dowry has already been paid.
slickrcbd wrote:Shampoo considers herself Ranma's wife and is so according to their laws, as every Amazon in the show has attested.
slickrcbd wrote:Honestly, when Mousse challenged Ranma, he should have swallowed his pride and threw the fight, although it's questionable if that would have worked with Cologne.
slickrcbd wrote:
As for lying and manipulating, Akane is just as guilty.
slickrcbd wrote:Ranma feels honor bound to all except Kodachi, which is part of why he drags his feet. The "harem solution" is really the only honorable one.
slickrcbd wrote:
Meanwhile, we have Akane getting mad at Ranma for actions of the other girls
slickrcbd wrote:Also Akane is NOT given a choice about dumping Ranma. She stays with him most of the time because she has no choice. The closest thing she had to a choice was in IIRC Vol 17 (don't quote me on this, I"m just recalling the fic "A New 17" that was an AU of when the engagement was switched to Nabiki).
Pata Hikari wrote:I know that is shocking and strange, as Ranma 1/2 fanfiction has so much out of character garbage and fanon, but I suggest you read the manga a bit. Read the silly Martial Arts Slapstick Romantic Comedy sitcom.
To address one of the inaccuracies, and probably the most blatant one: would-be rapists? Really? Hyperbole is something that we can do without. As well as the logical fallacy, where forcing a challenge, which would see the victor winning a date, means that the date will inevitably include the victor forcing himself upon Akane sexually. It's not only ridiculous, but I don't recall any indication that Akane expected things to happen that way. She's just annoyed and puts up with the situation, which I doubt would be the case if her fears matched the scenario that you're presenting.
she's not particularly traumatized by it
Don't believe me? Just look at her dealings with Ryoga; one could say that she's too comfortable in his company, sometimes. So, no, whatever prejudice she has against boys doesn't excuse her actions, particularly since it mostly seems to be Ranma where her prejudices lie, both in ways understandable and inexplicable.
Another issue with your reasoning is that Ranma's arrogance and Akane's feelings toward boys are coming into being in different ways, but they're not: they're both engendered by outside influences. Ranma didn't just up and decide to be arrogant one day because that's the kind of person he is, and can change how he is because he was in control of that portion of his personality from the get-go. In both cases, it's within their power to change their ways; Akane, in particular, we can not assume is helplessly stuck feeling and believing the way that she does about boys and/or Ranma. Really, if anyone is to have a better case about not being able to help how they turned out, between these two, that would be Ranma: he was strongly and pervasively influenced by a single person (his father) since he was a toddler, to shape him in specific ways, so his overall experience was a natural development beyond his control, whereas Akane had many more influences and choices to decide the state of her mind. Compared to the decade-plus worth of experiences that had a hand in Ranma's arrogance, Akane's comparatively-fleeting experience with some of the boys at her high school, at a time in her development where her personality was far from lacking a foundation, is as nothing.
Beyond that, I'd argue what their worst problems are. If you think Ranma's is arrogance, I actually think you're aiming too low, but more due to comparing his with Akane's, since she's just as arrogant. At least we can understand where Ranma is coming from when it comes to martial arts ability and experience, because he had an extensive, specialized training trip, that -- I imagine -- a rare few undertake, and he certainly has the strength and skills to show for it. At one point (during the story where Akane acquires that armor that supposedly draws out one's abilities), Akane actually had the gall to say that Ranma wasn't a true martial artist, just because she was chosen by an armor (whose choice was based on her physical charms, by the bye) that granted her abilities that she hadn't possessed before (and, thus, hadn't earned). Considering how many times and people that she's been shown up by, one could even argue that she's delusional, which is a problem that I think would overshadow Ranma's arrogance. Especially since it's also possible to argue that she's delusional in other ways as well. Considering that and other aspects of her personality, she's rather unreasonable and unfair to deal with.
I don't think that either are more at fault or cause
I won't accept any claim that either are worse than the other until someone takes a count of all of their actions and weighs the details that would determine the level of their wrongdoing.
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