Pata Hikari wrote:It came from a little thing called "Reading Ranma 1/2 by Rumiko Takahashi"
Anyone can make that claim, so I fail to see any point being made here by insinuating that I didn't read it. Two people can view the same accident, standing side by side, and make significantly different reports on the details.
Also, the 90% was an exaggeration, you know, that thing that people do.
Right. Oh, how did you guess that I was a mind reader?
...Is what I'd like to say. Actually, not really. Perhaps it would have been a different story had you used hyperbole, but, really, exaggeration in general is simply bad form in serious discussions/arguments when the subject is quantitative in nature.
The point is that Ranma starts most of the fight,
Sorry, gonna need that proof thing if you want that statement to be more than opinion.
and even then there are a lot less then you're stating if you think throwing out words like " They have a fairly antagonistic relationship" is accurate.
It's more that you're not getting something, and reading what you want from that. I constructed it very specifically to leave it open on degree. I didn't use any absolutes, and elaborated later. Beyond that, if you disagree with my observations, that's not my problem.
if you want to throw Fanon Akane into the mix then maybe your words are correct.
I could say something similar in return. The Akane that you're espousing is pretty alien to the Akane that I'm familiar with.
I mean, seriously. You've fallen into several Fanon traps
That sounds like something that someone would say when they're falling victim to one of the classic blunders. Let's take a look...
- Asuming Ranma and Akane's default state is antagonism
Nope.
You're assuming that I assumed that. "
Fairly antagonistic" hardly means completely, and thus default. If it were a matter of default, they wouldn't need buttons to press, would they?
Thinking that the scene "Ranma gets caught with a girl, Akane throws a screaming fit" happens with any particular regularity.
Yeah, you probably shouldn't think such an outrageous thing. You can't say, "I learned it from watching you," 'cause I never mentioned anything of the kind. Although, it
does upset her often enough. Sometimes it's understandable, and other times it's not (when she sees that it was out of Ranma's control and hits/yells at him anyway, or just automatically assumes that he initiated it, even if the girl he's supposedly doing something inappropriate with is known for initiating said action).
Completely ignoring all the character development that occurs over 38 volumes and assuming that Ranma and Akane's relationship was stuck in limbo.
Another assumption on your part. Do note that I never came to a consensus on where their relationship leads; I only really specified the nature of how their relationship started. Just because I say that it's "fairly antagonistic" overall doesn't mean that there's no room for anything else. It's obvious that there's an underlying attraction between them (not that it makes much sense), but they've got too many problems -- both within and without -- bogging them down.
Seriously, you call Akane unreasonable? She has the patience of a saint with Ranma! I don't think you get just how bad a lot of his actions are towards her.
Now, see, never once did I argue for Ranma's innocence. I placed focus on Akane because she was the one that got that absurdly-low (and supposedly exaggerated; which I believe, because it's not like you haven't weighed heavily on Akane's side of things before) percentage. Just because I'm quiet on matters pertaining to Ranma doesn't mean you can play ventriloquist and fill that void on my behalf, even if by way of suggestion.
Also, when Ranma is attacked by Shampoo, and is obviously frightened by the encounter, and Akane says, "Awfully cute, isn't she," the first thing I think of is patience. (Certainly not logic.) When Akane interrupted Ranma while he was explaining the kiss of death, because she jumped to conclusions, I also think of patience at that time, too. When Akane says, "Your little 'Shampoo' gave you quite a kiss... for a first meeting," after Shampoo gave Ranma the kiss of marriage, and prepared to get physical with Ranma when he tried to defend himself against such an allegation, whatever it is I think I see becomes a patient saint to me.
...Seriously, though, need I go on? That's just from one, small section of the manga. The series is
rife with this kind of behavior from Akane.
Japan is even today behind the West in gender equality. Now, imagine how it was 20 years ago when Ranma 1/2 was published. Akane's future pretty much depends on getting a good husband. And she has Ranma, who by giri is her fiance. Think, for a moment, what it says about her to her peers that he has these other girls openly coming on to him, and him doing little to nothing to discourage them most of the time. Every time Shampoo does her thing Akane is, quite often publicly, shamed. She has every right to get upset about that when her fiance just keeps letting it happen!
You drug reality into the equation, so am I supposed to take the last thing that you said (below) seriously or what?
And despite all of the supposed public shaming Akane's endured, she's as accepted by, and comfortable with, her peers as ever. Funny how fiction can ignore realism.
Not to mention his disparaging remarks on her looks and femininity. The fact that she has actually has willingly agreed to be engaged past the part way point of the series says a lot about her.
Oh, so should I do the assuming now, and think that you're saying it's okay for Akane to call Ranma a pervert (which I think is worse than what Ranma says, since its connotations are a lot more pervasive and negative)? They both sling mud at each other, though; so what. Akane gets special treatment?
Past the "part way point?" Is that supposed to be awe-inspiring, or significant? Heck, she technically wanted to get out of the engagement at least three times in the series (telling Ranma that they were strangers (right when her hair was cut by a bandanna), saying that the engagement didn't happen after Shampoo's kiss of marriage, and the time when she had given Ranma to Nabiki). Never once did Ranma ever do that sort of thing (as far as I can remember) after the initial resistance that both he and Akane put up when they were first engaged. And afterward, it's Akane who initiates the "I'm not going to marry you" and "don't hang around me at school" declarations. That she willingly upholds the engagement later on doesn't change the fact that she had to resign herself at some point to get there, since it's pretty clear that she doesn't like Ranma enough to get busy tying the knot even by the end of the series, partially because she cares more about her pride than she does about Ranma (by trying to get him to say that he loves her before she says such a thing to him).
Of course, all that is lightend by the fact that Ranma 1/2 is a comedy, so issues and stuff aren't taken near as seriously as they would in an actual drama (Another fanon trap, taking comedic plot points and scenes and treating them dead serious).
Well, I'm glad that I didn't fall into
that trap. What I take seriously is getting the facts straight, and 90% -- with 10% favoring Akane -- got in my crosshairs. I won't claim to be absolutely correct in my assertions, but I'm fairly confident about my knowledge. (I better be, since I've been reading Ranma 1/2 for nearly two decades, and writing fan-fiction -- and referencing the manga -- for nearly as long.)
Anyway, that's it from me on the matter. I
so need to get back to my current writing project.