Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:56 am

kjyl wrote:I think it is fair to say that if you are going for an "in canon" characterization of Ranma, having Ranma become romantically involved with a male character is out of the question with out the use of magic or mind altering macguffins of some sort.

There's much in what you say, but I've run into one exception: the stories (like Clothes Make The ...) where Akane gets cursed with boy-water. I still can't see boy-boy there, but the other possibilities don't seem too out of canon for Ranma.

Or does that count as magic?
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby Ellen Kuhfeld » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:15 pm

There's another fic in the "Ranma with a guy" concept space -- Kunoification by Ozzallos. As Oz says in the blurb for the story: "Nabiki stumbles across one of the biggest secrets at Furikan to date. My attempt to make a serious Kuno.RanmaChan without resorting to amnesia, drugs, curse locks, etc. Cut me some slack already, I make GOOD fics!"

It works startlingly well.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby toushin » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:54 pm

The fact of the matter is while ranma is merely nervous around girls the though of a guy liking his girl form seems to disgust him and his reaction is usually violent, both ryoga and Mikado can attest to that. while ranma got more used to the curse as time went on it still freaked him out when he was hit own. Just look at the hot spring owner while she didn’t mind the fact that he liked her she still didn’t let him touch her.

Most fics that involve ranma falling in love with a man even the really good one either provide no explanation why or not a very go one. i don’t remember its name but their was one fanfic where ranma’s curse was permanent so genma disowned him at jusenkyo. Ranma resigned herself to being alone for the rest of her life. A few years later she has a job and one of her co workers tries his luck with the frigid babe. While following ranma home they get attacked, he tries to run, but trips and ends up barreling towards their attackers. From ranma’s point of view it looked like he was pertecting her and he just went with it. While the fic was good ranma being lonely and falling for the first guy that did something nice for isn’t really that believable.

I’ve only really read two fics that I think made a good example of ranma-chan involved with a man. Tenchi and ranma together forever, and a human saiyan. In the first one tenchi represented something completely new to ranma not only was he nice to her but unlike ryoga and ukyo there was no competitive aspect of there relationship. While ranma was attracted to him it was completely subconscious and ranma fought it tooth and nail. She was very much attracted to women. Unfortunately it ended before it could go anywhere but it does seem it will end in a three way relationship between tenchi ranma and ryoko.

A human saiyan involves vegeta and ranma-chan. That relationship was purely animalistic. The cat aspect of the neko-ken connecting with the saiyan mentality. There was no attraction between the two until ranma started to unlock the neko-ken and even then it was pure animal passion.

Forever the tomboy even though ranma is a lesbian is a good example as well. Before ranma found out that haruka was a woman she was freaking out at the fact that she was attracted to a man and was seriously considering entering a relationship with him.

So while ranma-chan male relationship is possible it is highly unlikely. Weather the relationship goes anywhere also depends on who the guy is and even if it does they won’t escape a lot of bodily harm before ranma stops fighting it. Your best bet of having ranma end up with a guy would be to add another girl into the mix to even it out unfortunately not a lot of people would write about something like that.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby frice2000 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:49 am

Well since this is devolving into a I think Ranma/male character could be construed as canon I'll toss in my recommendation for most in character RanmaxMale portrayal. What's in a Name?. Very realistic and slow building approach there in my opinion. Yes its a lock fix and a crossover with Harry Potter, a series I normally detest, but it is very well written and worth a look.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby Spokavriel » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:05 pm

Without Magic is impossible. Ranma as a character does not exist without magic. You can't have forgotten the MAGIC JUSENKYO CURSE? No Magic No Ranma. At least not a cannon one.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby frice2000 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:05 pm

Following is not intended to be harsh or to be overly critical of what you said. I can respect that you disagree entirely with being able to have a canon RanmaXMale pairing in a story. I simply try to disprove that below and offer examples of where said pairing can be made into a plausible event even with a canon Ranma.

kjyl wrote:that you belive that I am saying that I am saying that Ramna ending up with a guy is a canon suportable event *? Because that is pretty much the opposite of what I have been saying.

But it is untrue to the canon version of the character.

That depends on your definition of the canon character. With a female body and possibly instincts to go along with said body how do you know that? Obviously psychologically he retains a male perspective at least on the surface but we've never seen inside his head overmuch. He shamelessly flirts and dresses up rather well when its advantageous to him. You think each and everyone of those interactions is a put on?

To be clear I'm not saying that Ranma is at all LIKELY to jump in bed with some male figure, but assume the curse is locked for years and all his other love interests move on. He's had to deal with being in a female body for longer then he was male, so now he'd have over ~15 years in a purely female body with all that entails. You're saying after living that, that'd be impossible for him to become more feminine or to look at men in a different way? That's what the story I linked does. It slowly evolves Ranma to that point and he still struggles with it and doesn't want it before embracing it in the end after lots of struggle. That does feel in character and possibly canon when you consider time and other pressures and loss of other love interests. I agree with you that Ozz's story doesn't feel canon and other stories that have Ranma becoming feminine in less then a seeming month just don't work. Increase the timescale dramatically, add in deeply scarring events, or obligations and mix in a possibly locked curse for a long period and things become much more plausible. Alternatively you've got a story like this and this where he refuses to change and those are in character and feel plausible to a canon character portrayal too, but even in those obviously being stuck as a woman long term or having obligations changes things as well it should.

The whole, 'stop being gay if they tried' is totally useless to this conversation. Magic is involved. Who knows what happens to his brain when he changes back and forth between male and female forms. Who knows what effects the hormonal changes would have on him. If you want to go the learned behavior route for sexuality then that could easily be mutable when everyone else around him sees him as a female in his female form to whatever extent. If you want to go the born sexual preference route then how do you know the female form isn't different and Ranma is just embarrassed by this and doesn't let it affect him pulling up a overly macho exterior to cover this up? Either is plausible and you simply discounting them because on the surface Ranma rejects them just means you haven't really considered all that's possibly going on psychologically with Ranma. Do I think Takashi wanted Ranma to be totally heterosexual and never have to deal with these sorts of questions? Yes, obviously. Look up her interview where she's disgusted by someone asking if Ranma could become pregnant. That doesn't mean one can't use her source material in a way she might not have intended but still can fit in with a canon character when done very creatively. This usually isn't the case but it does happen rarely in some very good stories.

Atlernatively when you have something like in Lost Innocence I think that to could be plausible for character interactions and character changes coming from a very very dramatic event, albeit at points it is excessive and a tad preachy. Of course there's the flip side to that story The Silent Horse where Ranma is almost raped and does change in a believable fashion but doesn't develop a female mindset. You've also got stories like this one where Ranma sacrifices his male side because he has obligations that only his female side can complete. While I don't believe that story does enough with the conflict between that it's still a good example of how a loosely canon Ranma could cave in to his feminine side. Then you've got a story like this one where Ranma's male form is gone. Dead. He doesn't spontaneously seek male companionship but with only a female body left and people who have no connection to his previously male life only seeing him as he is that slowly changes too. Is that in character and could it be construed as canon? I believe it can.

That doesn't mean I don't like stories where Ranma just goes, 'Teehee I'm a girl!!' but I'm not going to point you at one of those and go, 'That's canon!'. The story I did link though does feel that way to me. Give it a read, and give some of the other stories I linked herein a read. You can disagree certainly but to me some among those are examples of a plausible RanmaXMale or at least a canon Ranma evolving quite a bit toward this point you state isn't possible.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby Spokavriel » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:35 pm

The thing is there already is magic involved. And the question is how complete is the change. We already know that Spring of Drowned Young Girl is not a behavioral spring. But it has also been proven in other non behavioral springs that all the instincts that go with the form are included to help someone cope with being in the other form.

Consider the reaction to the kiss in the Ice skating rink. Its not like its a situation that could have happened to Ranma if his body couldn't change. But the level of reaction, while done for effect, could also hit at there being an instinctual reaction in addition to just the situation.

While I also continue to agree it is unlikely for Ranma to get into a relationship with a guy that doesn't mean that Ranma in girl form is immune from any hormonal or instinctual reactions. And that has got to be at least as disturbing for her as just about anything else.
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Re: Ranko with a guy? i dont think so

Postby frice2000 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:49 pm

Or to put it another way, such large changes would by neccesity change the character

Umm...isn't this the point of fanfiction in the first place? If you enjoy reading it by it's very nature it involves character development either in a logical direction started by the original author or in a different direction by the fanfiction author. You really can't have a piece of fanfiction that goes on for more then a few pages without developing something or introducing some new element without a story becoming pointless. So I'm not sure how this is any different.

Your reaching a bit in to fanon here. While I agree totally that alternate character interpritations are fun and can be the seed for a good story, it still does not change the fact that it is not canon.

Of course I'm reaching partially into fanon there. Writing a piece of fanfiction inevitably means breaking parts of canon, or changing parts of canon, or going further then canon, or looking more into minutiae of something in canon. I'd challenge you to give me an example of a piece of Ranma fanfiction or any piece of fanfiction in general that's over 10k words and is about main characters from a work that doesn't regardless of what it's about. That doesn't mean that logical evolution when well presented make for a different character or are far reaching alternative interpretations. It's all dependent on an authors skill level.

would pretty much turn them into almost completely different character.

Indeed, that happens in some of the stories I linked. However, a couple of them especially that What's in a Name story has Ranma stay remarkably the same and still be almost entirely recognizable. That's why that story was the main one I pointed out to showcase the argument against this. Give it a read and tell me if you think that isn't the case.
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