Naruto Manga Progression *Spoilers!*

[Shadell]

On Sasuke remaining Naruto's rival: I really hope that is not the case. For dramatic purposes, the best way to deal with Sasuke is to either go for the "redemption and sacrifice" route, or have him and Naruto go at it in one final brawl. I really hope they don't pull a fanfiction manoeuver and let him come back to the Leaf or something. Traitors are hunted down and executed, not allowed to return like shit never happened. Heck, that would be a great dramatic moment: Naruto fights against doing his duty or following his heart. Both options having bad consiquences.

They've already stated they're trying to get him to come back to the leaf. Besides, his recent actions (Killing Orochimaru) are certainly redemptive when you consider just what Orochimaru did the the leaf village.

Besides, didn't Sasuke have two goals, killing Itachi and restoring the Uchiha clan. Assuming he survives the fight with Itachi, Sasuke will most likely only have one goal left. Therefore, after Itachi dies, Sasuke will....

Turn into a Miroku clone!

Develope the whole cast? No no no, that would be insane to attempt. But the author could have used those 400 chapters to better develope the main characters and to at least flesh out/develope some of the secondary cast (secondary cast = supporting / antagonist characters: Sannin, Akatsuki members, ect.). Trying to do anthing with the tertiary or quartiary cast (other teams, random characters) would be something best done in supplemental materials like sourcebooks or short-stories.

Most Akatsuki members have had a fair bit of conversation about their pasts or personalities tacked onto their story arcs. Jiraiya has certainly gotten a lot of development, equally so with Itachi. Tsunade herself has changed dramatically since shes been introduced, we've seen some chunks of Orochimaru's past, and we have the whole thing with Kabuto. Even the tertiary and quaternary casts get their chance in the limelight. Hell, the manga's even given us a few mentions of the random chuni eam proctors/obligatory characters that fill space. (Well, a name isn't all that much.)

Rather, the fact that Naruto has such a clearly defined and expansive casts is one of the story's strongest points. There are very few random characters who don't seem to have any past. At the same time, major characters haven't disappeared from the limelight.

Furthermore, I'm not saying that there has not been lots of developement in the main cast, but it feels like it is a lot less than there is when you look at how many chapters were wasted on drawn out scenes and diologue that turned out to be useless later on. Eg: ~23 pages of the Naruto/Neji fight in volume 12 are backstory for Neji or dialogue not directly related to their fight. Interesting material, and it fleshed out the Hyuuga clan and Neji's backgrounds. But why all that space used for an issue that is resolved right away, and for a character who does not get anymore on-screne developement or exploration? Why not use that space on the characters that actually affect the plot, as opposed to those that exist to be used by the plot / as plot devices.

That backstory served a key roll in showcasing Naruto's talent at reaching people, something the manga has been stressing. As of the chunin exam, Negi was a primary antagonist. Not giving any reason for him to be a jerk would be bizarre.

[claymade]

Rather, the fact that Naruto has such a clearly defined and expansive casts is one of the story's strongest points. There are very few random characters who don't seem to have any past. At the same time, major characters haven't disappeared from the limelight.

Agreed. I like Neji's character--like him a lot. Sure, maybe the backstory for him wasn't directly leading into the ultimate showdown at the end. Maybe it was just to flesh out the antagonist for that one particular bit. That still doesn't change the fact that I found the character development done on him enjoyable in and of itself.

Same for most of the other characters like Lee, Chouji, Gaara, etc. And of course, Shikamaru has been going through oodles of character growth from where he used to be. One of the most telling things about Naruto, looking at it in comparison with a lot of other ensemble shounen manga, is that there are usually only a few of the main characters in them that manage to even catch up to the level of attachment that I feel for even minor Naruto characters. IMHO, what Kishimoto has in spades is a gift for creating really, really enjoyable characters, which is more than anything else what fascinates me so about the Naruto-verse.

They've already stated they're trying to get him to come back to the leaf. Besides, his recent actions (Killing Orochimaru) are certainly redemptive when you consider just what Orochimaru did the the leaf village.

Right. Considering that his training under Orochimaru didn't ultimately do anything to particularly against them--and comparing it against what it later allowed Sasuke to do for them, I can pretty easily see them writing it off as a "retroactive technique-spy/assassination-plant" and leaving it at that once Naruto drags him home. Whether it will actually play out that way, though, can't yet be known.

[claymade]

Just thought I'd tack another post on here with regard to the rather large revelation that was dropped in the very latest issue of Naruto.

Now, granted, it should come as no surprise to anyone that Sasuke was, to some extent, riding for a fall. Heck, it was directly foreshadowed with Kakashi's last warning to him just before he defected--about how even if he did get his revenge he'd only be hurting and suffering even more than he was then. And we did see some amount of this already, in the dead expression he was wearing even as he was recovering.

That said... knowing Sasuke's history and issues... if this latest tidbit turns out to be true at face value, then Kishimoto, it appears, has decided to kick him in the nuts with a viciousness even beyond what I was expecting. Well, he can't say Kakashi didn't warn him...

Concerning the revelation itself... well, if true, it certainly would make fresh sense out of quite a few things in Itachi's earlier appearances that I'd previously (and irately) had to write of to just "stupid villain overconfidence"--like Kakashi's puzzlement as to why Itachi isn't going all-out against them. Not to mention Asuma's (in retrospect) foreshadowing comment about how odd Itachi's disinclination to fight them is.

Eh, anyway, guess we'll just have to see where exactly the story runs with it...

[Jupiah]

No freakin' way. Does this mean that all of the fangirls were right about Itachi all along?!

[claymade]

Hahaha! I guess they might be, at that. I'd almost be tempted to be annoyed, just on general principle--except for that it does make sense all that stuff that was, frankly, annoying even me more.

And of course, because I can think of no more utter skewering of everything Sasuke has done--and thrown away--in the service of his revenge.

[KonokoHasano]

Actually, I think I'm starting to like how this is all going. The complete and utter Nerd-rage I've been seeing is starting to become entertaining. People seem to be ignoring everything else and focusing on their hate for Sasuke and his 'newest power-up'.

Honestly, when you think about it, it doesn't really seem like a real power-up.

Ah well. It's all funny none-the-less.

[Yrael]

Actually, I think I'm starting to like how this is all going. The complete and utter Nerd-rage I've been seeing is starting to become entertaining. People seem to be ignoring everything else and focusing on their hate for Sasuke and his 'newest power-up'.

Honestly, when you think about it, it doesn't really seem like a real power-up.

Ah well. It's all funny none-the-less.

It's not so much hate for his newest power-up as it feels like the author has focused on this character extensively while somewhat ignoring what is supposed to be the main character.

However, I do like the curve ball Kishimoto has thrown us concerning Itachi. It'll be interesting to see what Madra tells about him in the next few chapters.

[Shadell]

No freakin' way. Does this mean that all of the fangirls were right about Itachi all along?!

Well... He did still try to tear his little brother's eyes out.

Frankly I think, or rather hope, that Itachi won't end up as either as saint or a demon. It's always much more interesting to see characters one can be ambivalent towards.

[claymade]

Actually, I think I'm starting to like how this is all going. The complete and utter Nerd-rage I've been seeing is starting to become entertaining. People seem to be ignoring everything else and focusing on their hate for Sasuke and his 'newest power-up'.

Honestly, when you think about it, it doesn't really seem like a real power-up.

Ah well. It's all funny none-the-less.

One thing to note is that while it may be a net powerup, he's also lost a decent amount in this transaction. Part of the whole reason he was able to fight Itachi so equitably is that he had access to Orochimaru's chakra/techniques on top of his own--the only reason he could trick the Amaterasu and set up the Kirin. Those, as far as I can see, are kaput now.

(On a side note--when they were explaining how Kirin worked, the whole "using a manipulation of heat currents to channel a surge of power that was far greater than the wielder could produce on their own" bit... was anyone else having massive flashbacks to the Hiryu Shoten Ha? )

Anyway, I suppose Sasuke probably did need to get this powerup somehow--considering that even Itachi couldn't take Madara. And if Naruto's final endboss is the ninja-god Pain, I've a strong suspicion who Sasuke's is going to end up being.

[Jupiah]

Hmmm, I wonder. What's going to happen to Itachi's corpse? What if Sasuke took Itachi's eyes and became immortal? I imagine he'll have to do something along that line in order to be able to fight Mandara evenly.

One of the things I like best about Naruto is that, unlike in many other martial arts manga, no tactic, weapon, or jutsu ever becomes truly obsolete. I loved how both Sasuke and Itachi were throwing around shurikens and kunai in addition to their crazy ass jutsu, and those weapons were still effective. Much of Sasuke's strategy seemed to revolve around those storage seals tattooed on his body. (Incidentally, did those seals make anyone else think of Mousse? We finally know how he does Hidden Weapons! XD)

I think Kishimoto's starting to overuse the genjutsu though. It was quite shocking the first I though that Sasuke had been undeniably killed by Deidara, only to realize that I'd been watching the same genjutsu Deidara had fallen for. After seeing Itachi and Sasuke "kill" each other 3-4 times though, it started to get a little old. When Itachi finally collapsed, I half-expected for it to actually be a genjutsu.

[FriendlyEL]

One question though with Madara... do any people have some sort of idea of why people think he acted as, well, jolly as he was while being Tobi? I wonder if it could honestly be due to a split personality he had or simply the fact that he was trying to keep attention away from other Akatsuki.

[Yrael]

One question though with Madara... do any people have some sort of idea of why people think he acted as, well, jolly as he was while being Tobi? I wonder if it could honestly be due to a split personality he had or simply the fact that he was trying to keep attention away from other Akatsuki.

Nobody ever suspects the village idiot.



*Spoilers for Issue #399*

So, as we've learned now, not only can the sharingan copy jutsu, fighting styles, create black holes, trap you in unbeatable genjutsus, grant precognition, and cook a mean omelet, it can now apparently control the Kyuubi as well.

[claymade]

So, as we've learned now, not only can the sharingan copy jutsu, fighting styles, create black holes, trap you in unbeatable genjutsus, grant precognition, and cook a mean omelet, it can now apparently control the Kyuubi as well.

Eh? Haven't we known this all along? That was the whole reason Sasuke was able to poof the Kyuubi way back in their first meeting after the timeskip, and I'm sure it was mentioned at least once since then. It certainly didn't surprise me, at any rate.

On the other hand, what did surprise me is how insanely badass the First Hokage was. If we take this at face value... then he flat-out beat a perfected Mangekyo Sharingan and the Kyuubi.

Simultaneously.

[Jupiah]

On the other hand, what did surprise me is how insanely badass the First Hokage was. If we take this at face value... then he flat-out beat a perfected Mangekyo Sharingan and the Kyuubi.

Simultaneously.

I doubt that the First actually fought the Kyuubi during that fight. According to Yamato in Volume 33, the First Hokage was famous for his unique ability to control and suppress the chakra of the Kyuubi (and presumably, any bijuu), and it was for this reason that he was made Hokage. He probably just sealed the Kyuubi's chakra with his Hokage Shiki Jijun Jutsu: Kakuan Nitten Suishu (Hokage Style Forced Retirement Jutsu: Return of Innocence - Enclosing Palm).

It's still pretty impressive that he managed to defeat Mandara alone though.

There is one thing I found rather odd. Chapter 399 seems to imply that the Uchiha clan regularly controlled the Kyuubi and forced it to do their bidding - Mandara summoned it during the battle at the Valley of the End, and the Uchiha clan were so well known for it that they were suspected as being behind the Kyuubi's attack 16 years ago. It's no wonder that the Kyuubi hates Konoha and the Uchiha so much!

[claymade]

I doubt that the First actually fought the Kyuubi during that fight. According to Yamato in Volume 33, the First Hokage was famous for his unique ability to control and suppress the chakra of the Kyuubi (and presumably, any bijuu), and it was for this reason that he was made Hokage. He probably just sealed the Kyuubi's chakra with his Hokage Shiki Jijun Jutsu: Kakuan Nitten Suishu (Hokage Style Forced Retirement Jutsu: Return of Innocence - Enclosing Palm).

Well, sure, his particular efficacy against bijuu is what makes the feat even remotely conceivable. Still, if Yamato is any indication at all, stopping a bijuu like that isn't "free" for him--the latter wears himself out just keeping Naruto in check while he's training.

The impressive thing is that, not only could he beat a perfected Mangekyo in a straight fight (when Madara was in his prime, no less--Itachi implies that Madara was even much more powerful back then) but he could beat Madara while also keeping the (full-power) Kyuubi under wraps.