General Questions mk 2

[Crescent Pulsar]

As far as I know, he set the qualification for dating Akane. They merely had to choose whether they wanted to do it that way, or not do anything at all. So I wouldn't say that it was forced in so much as he had enough influence over them (at the time) to inspire them to go along with it. Out of fear for a superior fighter? Perhaps. If one of them actually managed to ask Akane properly, and she accepted, Kuno would probably find out, along with the other guys, and since he's not as capable a fighter as Akane... He'd be a poo stain on the ground afterward. Unless Akane decided to defend him, anyway.

So, I also say fanon.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

I was just wondering; why does fanon always portray Nodoka as either obsessed with grandchildren, perverted (at the very least deeply satisfied with Ranma being at least hinted to be a womaniser/pervert) or both of the above?

[Crescent Pulsar]

The grandchildren part may be attributed to the anime, since I know it's not something in the manga.

As for being a pervert herself, that might also be due to the anime, and/or a misconception of what happens in general. Nodoka only accepted the perceived behavior because, to her understanding, men can act strange around, or toward, the girl that he loves. And, especially in the case of the betrothed, showing a distinct interest in Akane would be normal and, thus, manly. I'd probably question it if she had meant the treatment of just any girl in general, but it's intended to mean toward someone's significant other, since it's not abnormal for couples to play around before marriage. That's my take on it, at the moment, anyway.

[Zwzn]

I was just wondering; why does fanon always portray Nodoka as either obsessed with grandchildren, perverted (at the very least deeply satisfied with Ranma being at least hinted to be a womaniser/pervert) or both of the above?

At one point Ranma is encouraged to peep on Akane, and she seems to approve, but this is the same women who goes for a sword to deal with peeping toms.

Personally I can see a big difference between a stranger peeping on me, and someone I am to marry peeping on me in the bath.

[mondu_the_fat]

At one point Ranma is encouraged to peep on Akane, and she seems to approve, but this is the same women who goes for a sword to deal with peeping toms.

This is fairly consistent in terms of gender roles in her mind.

Manly men are supposed peep.

Women aren't supposed to enjoy being peeped on.

Therefore, she encourages Ranma to peep. Failure to peep implies that Ranma is not being manly. This is not to say that women are supposed to enjoy being peeped upon. Being a woman, she will also chase anyone peeping.

[Zwzn]

At one point Ranma is encouraged to peep on Akane, and she seems to approve, but this is the same women who goes for a sword to deal with peeping toms.

is fairly consistent in terms of gender roles in her mind.

Manly men are supposed peep.

Women aren't supposed to enjoy being peeped on.

Therefore, she encourages Ranma to peep. Failure to peep implies that Ranma is not being manly. This is not to say that women are supposed to enjoy being peeped upon. Being a woman, she will also chase anyone peeping.

The problem is that she thinks perverts are unmannly, and views peeping toms as perverts that need to be killed. She never says anything about how unmanly they are for being spotted. It is always that they are unmanly for being perverts.

I really think that Ranma being engaged to be married to the person he was told to peep on was important.

I would not say Nodoka is not a very traditional women.

[mondu_the_fat]

The problem is that she thinks perverts are unmannly

Where and when did she say or infer this?

views peeping toms as perverts that need to be killed.

yes, and?

She never says anything about how unmanly they are for being spotted. It is always that they are unmanly for being perverts.

Again, where and when did she say or infer this?

I would not say Nodoka is not a very traditional women.

She's _very_ traditional. her ideas on gender roles are archaic.

[Zwzn]

The problem is that she thinks perverts are unmannly

and when did she say or infer this?

Since when do you try to punish or in her case kill someone for proper behavior? She intends to at least hurt perverts with a sword.

She never says anything about how unmanly they are for being spotted. It is always that they are unmanly for being perverts.

, where and when did she say or infer this?

The story line where she meets Ranma and Genma at a hot spring she honeymooned at, and it is what she does not say that matters.

I would not say Nodoka is not a very traditional women.

_very_ traditional. her ideas on gender roles are archaic.

Ranma clearly belongs to a Samurai family, and she states many times she comes from a long line of warriors. What is traditional for Samurai women is a 180 from a lot of cultures, and is different from Nodoka in many notable ways.

She should for example know how to fight, and think it only proper Ranko and the Tendo girls to as well.

She might look the part, but she is found wanting in many other ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai#Women

[Crescent Pulsar]

As far as I know, she's from a martial arts family; and I'm not sure that would include samurai.

As for the whole "pervert" thing, I believe the question was whether or not she was perverted, not what she thinks makes someone a pervert. And, while her views do contradict themselves, said views, and how she acts, doesn't make her a pervert. At least not in the sense that SpaceKnight was referring to.

[Zwzn]

As far as I know, she's from a martial arts family; and I'm not sure that would include samurai.

As for the whole "pervert" thing, I believe the question was whether or not she was perverted, not what she thinks makes someone a pervert. And, while her views do contradict themselves, said views, and how she acts, doesn't make her a pervert. At least not in the sense that SpaceKnight was referring to.

In Japan only the Samurai could own swords at least for a long time as I understand it. It is thought to be one reason why in World War 2 the Japanese had such stupidly bayonets. It was like saying here is a sword but not a sword.

A samurai's wife was suppose to stay at home, and fight off anyone who would try to attack when the samurai was away training or fighting a battle. Nodoka not knowing how to fight actually shows she is not as traditional as many think.

My point was she is so anti-pervert she wants to kill them.

[Crescent Pulsar]

But I'm sure she could be plenty traditional in other ways. It can't be restricted to whatever makes a wife of a samurai.

As for your point, being anti-pervert doesn't mean that she's must not a pervert. Plenty of people who have advocated against gay marriage and such were found to be gay themselves, for instance.

[Zwzn]

But I'm sure she could be plenty traditional in other ways. It can't be restricted to whatever makes a wife of a samurai.

As for your point, being anti-pervert doesn't mean that she's must not a pervert. Plenty of people who have advocated against gay marriage and such were found to be gay themselves, for instance.

There is nothing that points to her being a pervert, and everything to point to her being violently anti-pervert.

If you do not behave in the traditional manner of your social class you are not traditional. Nodoka at least tries to appear to be a traditional samurai's wife. Nodoka only looks traditional in much the same way most Ranma 1/2 character appear to be noble and honorable.

[Crescent Pulsar]

*Shakes head*

You didn't get what I said. Well, no use saying it again, since I wasn't even arguing against your opinions.

I was merely pointing out that judgement would probably be best reserved for broader measurements than what you're using at the moment.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

New question; why is Ranma so well established as being completely uninterested in school work in fanon? What are the possible canon sources that served to fuel that element? I know Ranma has fought with Principal Kuno over things related to schoolwork in some stories, he has dozed off in class once or twice in the anime (always from outside interference, if I recall right- that episode where he'd been up all night and drained by his disembodied evil side), and there's the fact that "Hard Battle" had Ranma attempting to defeat his 8 opponents in exchange for exemption from exams...

[Crescent Pulsar]

It's probably a mix of things. But I find it difficult to answer the question since I don't really know the degree of disinterest we're talking about. I mean, it's obvious that he's not studious, but he's shown that he's not exactly stupid, either. And he cares enough to bother with the work. It could just be that he's more accustomed to thinking on his feet, and sitting down, while thinking over a piece of paper, is as abnormal for him as it would be for most of us if we had to do our schoolwork while working out.

But, if I were to blame something for the laziness and degree of disinterest that I've read in fan-fiction, I'd say it's a problem that goes way back, and has affected many aspects of the series, in relation to fan-fiction, rather negatively. And that would take us back to the mid to late nineties or so, when there was only so much of the anime and manga out in English, a lot of interest, and a desire for more information that couldn't wait for Viz. Back when people would pick up scraps of information, a few basic facts, more or less, but no real context. And then you had people incorporate these facts, such as from the Herb and Kumon Ryu stories, which weren't translated in English yet, and would never show up in the anime. And you end up with stories where Ranma can become invisible with a cloth without even knowing the mechanics behind it, or that he wasn't even supposed to use it again (which is duly noted by the fact that he never does any of the techniques again outside of that particular story).

Aside from the anime's terrible habit of making it so easy to stereotype characters, Ranma probably got hit by information from the manga outside of the context, and it was assumed that his grade, that was read on TV, was bad. And, maybe it was: there is enough to suggest it. But the paths of least resistance, to explain bad grades, are: one, he doesn't like school work, and thus avoids it when possible; and two, he's an idiot. And, back when I was still reading fan-fiction, I saw plenty examples of both, usually together. And then a lot of authors rationalized that, since he's a good martial artist, that's the only time he can show much in the way of smarts. And sometimes, much to my amusement, they go so far as to say that that's when he becomes a "genius."

In the end, I wouldn't say that he's too delinquent about his schoolwork. He probably considers it a mix of responsibility and obligation more than he does interesting, but that's pretty normal for a lot of students.