Ranma - Senshi Assassin

[PCHeintz72]

I am going by "Being sealed makes you insane" also it might be that Pluto manipulated the Senshi to be where a portal to the Dark Kingdom opened, that's why certain Senshi ended in England. So is not like not being in Japan would have changed things much. Also, the main problem of the Dark Kingdom is not bad tactics, is lack of teamwork. Since the Generals are constantly trying to back stab each other and Beryl is insane, that's why the girls never faced two generals at the same time.

Doubtful. I'd be willing to grant Beryl being insane from prolonged contact with Metalia... not so much from the sealing itself. That would not really account for all the others.

I could think of a dozen ways they could have been more effective.

[Maximara]

PCHeintz72:But we still know that Beryl and army were sealed, not destroyed. We also know their tactical planning abilities, well, suck... Ditto Nehelania... and even the Black Moon Clan was not all that great tactics wise.


I am going by "Being sealed makes you insane" also it might be that Pluto manipulated the Senshi to be where a portal to the Dark Kingdom opened, that's why certain Senshi ended in England. So is not like not being in Japan would have changed things much. Also, the main problem of the Dark Kingdom is not bad tactics, is lack of teamwork. Since the Generals are constantly trying to back stab each other and Beryl is insane, that's why the girls never faced two generals at the same time.

Actually the main problem of the Dark Kingdom is bad tactics. By basic Sun Tzu tactics they are morons.

"Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win, because many calculations were made;
before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were made;
many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations?" - Sun Tzu chapter 1 "Calculation"

"If ten times the enemy's strength, surround them;
if five times, attack them;
if double, divide them;
if equal, be able to fight them;
if fewer, be able to evade them;
if weaker, be able to avoid them." - Sun Tzu chapter 3 "Planning Attacks"

"Therefore, if the enemy is at ease, be able to exhaust him;
if the enemy is well fed, be able to starve him;
if the enemy is settled, be able to move him;
appear at places where he must rush to defend, and rush to places where he least expects." - Sun Tzu chapter 6 "Weakness and Strength"

Take Jadeite's many projects. Nearly all of them fail because he drains energy way too fast attracting attention. This ignores Sun Tzu chapter 6 "Weakness and Strength" advice about being Subtle, formless, and Mysterious. Instead his tactics boil down to doing the equivalent of putting up a mile high neon sigh saying "Hey I'm draining energy here. Please smash my youma, again."

[Maximara]

Blackcat101:
I am going by "Being sealed makes you insane" also it might be that Pluto manipulated the Senshi to be where a portal to the Dark Kingdom opened, that's why certain Senshi ended in England. So is not like not being in Japan would have changed things much. Also, the main problem of the Dark Kingdom is not bad tactics, is lack of teamwork. Since the Generals are constantly trying to back stab each other and Beryl is insane, that's why the girls never faced two generals at the same time.

Doubtful. I'd be willing to grant Beryl being insane from prolonged contact with Metalia... not so much from the sealing itself. That would not really account for all the others.

I could think of a dozen ways they could have been more effective.

Agreed. In my Saotome Ranma, Wiseman fanfict I make a big deal how even basic Sun Tzu tactics would have improved the chances of the Dark Kingdom.

[LawOhki]

But we still know that Beryl and army were sealed, not destroyed.

I'm guessing you're talking about the anime, as in the manga Beryl and the generals were killed and got reincarnated. (Minako ran her through with a sword) Without reading back, I think it was implied only Metallia got sealed away, not even with the army who would have been wiped out when Saturn reset everything.

This is despite the fact such a organization may well fly in the face of a gentle, loving, caring, open, free, etc. society.

Wasn't really a free society. The people of the moon ruled over everyone else with their power and long lives. As benevolent as they could hope to be, there's no way they could stop people from starting to resent them sitting up on their high tower looking down on them.

[Blackcat101]

Is not possible to have good tactics with limited resources and lack of cooperation, plus a leader that's insane. Jadeite did the best he could with the conditions and orders he had, but he went from facing one Senshi to facing three, and have Tuxedo Mask prevent his attempts to kill Sailor Moon.

A bad general can easily lose a battle even if counts with a superior force.

[Maximara]

Is not possible to have good tactics with limited resources and lack of cooperation, plus a leader that's insane. Jadeite did the best he could with the conditions and orders he had, but he went from facing one Senshi to facing three, and have Tuxedo Mask prevent his attempts to kill Sailor Moon.

A bad general can easily lose a battle even if counts with a superior force.

Nazi Germany did very well early on with exactly these issues. Insane leader? Check. Limited resources? In 1933-1935 that's a check. Lack of cooperation? Again a very big check (many programs were needless duplicates with each trying to get their leader's favor). The real reason they got as far as they did was the memories of the Great War that nobody want to relive and a brilliant use of Sun Tzu tactics.

Even with the war well on the way as long as they kept their crazy leader from making actual military decisions they were fine. The Ardennes were thought to be impossible for mechanized warfare and so there was only a token collection of soldiers there ... "To be certain to take what you attack, attack where the enemy cannot defend." - Sun Tzu Chapter 6 "Weakness and Strength". So the Nazis cam through the Ardennes.


The United States in Vietnam is a prime example of Sun Tzu tactics winning the day even though as far as the battlefield was concerned they had unlimited resources, a completely sane leader, and good (by Western standards) generals. And yet the United States lost Vietnam The Art of War Sun Tsu (History Channel) and Great Books-The Art of War.

"Therefore, the best warfare strategy is to attack the enemy's plans, next is to attack alliances, next is to attack the army, and the worst is to attack a walled city." - Sun Tzu Chapter 3 "Planning Attacks"

If these Dark Kingdom generals had had any brains they would have done multi-pronged attack effectively running the Sailor Senshi all over Tokyo to protect people so they would be too exhausted for the next phase. The fact the generals of the Dark Kingdom were such bunglers raises the issue of how blunder brained the Senshi of Queen Serenity's time where.

[Spica75]

If these Dark Kingdom generals had had any brains they would have done multi-pronged attack effectively running the Sailor Senshi all over Tokyo to protect people so they would be too exhausted for the next phase. The fact the generals of the Dark Kingdom were such bunglers

You forget that they were seriously political creatures even more than generals. To keep going with your first example, it would be like having 4 Göring in charge. The only real one messed up immensely despite being plenty competent at the job.

[PCHeintz72]

You forget that they were seriously political creatures even more than generals. To keep going with your first example, it would be like having 4 Göring in charge. The only real one messed up immensely despite being plenty competent at the job.

That would make them more like El Hazard... more ceremonial in nature than any effective fighting force. (a single high school student in charge of their enemy nearly decimated all the allied nations, when realistically they should have been able to steamroll the Bugrum).

I actually have a hard time believing that to be the case. I never said they could not fight... merely that they had practically no ability to think in terms of tactics and planning...

And if it is the case, and they were more political than effective fighters... what does that say for the Moon Kingdom senshi.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

A prince's guard a competent general does not necessarily make. It especially can not be counted upon when another entity corrupts their thinking process/bends them to its will.

Also, deciding the Silver Millennium's sailor senshi abilities -- or the lack thereof -- based on one of the least important details in regard to this matter, and disregarding everything else, is extremely flawed logic. More important were the circumstances and the foe that actually defeated them (that being Metallia). Like I said before, it's not a matter of the sailor senshi's abilities being better or worse at a given time, but that Usagi surpassed her mother, because the four guardian sailor senshi were overcome by Metallia both times. (And in the manga, the reincarnated sailor senshi kicked the four generals' asses.)

[Blackcat101]

I have yet to read a story where one of the generals tries to apply The Art of War and deals with the other three generals trying to back-stab him and Beryl insanity.

Ya know, I wonder how much Ranma 1/2 would change in one of the teachers Ranma got in the road had made him read the Art of war?

"What if Ranma Saotome had read the art of war just before getting his Jusenko curse, how would that change things?"

I have read stories where Ranma finds a teacher and so deals with Nerima and the Tendos differently,, but what if Ranma finds a great fighter, gets his ass kicked and is given the art of war and told to read it?

A story where Ranma uses his brains and training in a creative way instead of powerful magical artifacts would be very interesting. Not making Ranma have knowledge of the future or making him overpowered. Just the teachings of a book...

[PCHeintz72]

I have yet to read a story where one of the generals tries to apply The Art of War and deals with the other three generals trying to back-stab him and Beryl insanity.

Ya know, I wonder how much Ranma 1/2 would change in one of the teachers Ranma got in the road had made him read the Art of war?

"What if Ranma Saotome had read the art of war just before getting his Jusenko curse, how would that change things?"

I have read stories where Ranma finds a teacher and so deals with Nerima and the Tendos differently,, but what if Ranma finds a great fighter, gets his ass kicked and is given the art of war and told to read it?

A story where Ranma uses his brains and training in a creative way instead of powerful magical artifacts would be very interesting. Not making Ranma have knowledge of the future or making him overpowered. Just the teachings of a book...

Been done. Well.. more accurately Ranma has been given that or read that, not the exact scenario you laid down.

[Maximara]

I have yet to read a story where one of the generals tries to apply The Art of War and deals with the other three generals trying to back-stab him and Beryl insanity.

Ya know, I wonder how much Ranma 1/2 would change in one of the teachers Ranma got in the road had made him read the Art of war?

"What if Ranma Saotome had read the art of war just before getting his Jusenko curse, how would that change things?"

I have read stories where Ranma finds a teacher and so deals with Nerima and the Tendos differently,, but what if Ranma finds a great fighter, gets his ass kicked and is given the art of war and told to read it?

A story where Ranma uses his brains and training in a creative way instead of powerful magical artifacts would be very interesting. Not making Ranma have knowledge of the future or making him overpowered. Just the teachings of a book...

There was such a fict called "The Art of War" but sadly the author, Emeric Maury, when the Ranma reading Art of War doesn't change anything route with canona actions explained in the context of Sun Tzu. It is as lame as it sounds.

While it has him Ranma in name only (no martial arts, sent to the Dark Kingdome as a baby and raise there), Lord Ranma has Ranma as a Dark Kingdom General behave in a very Sun Tzu manner due to him having no real powers:

(Beryl) "Tell me... what is your opinion on how we should proceed, once that seal is gone for good?"

Ranma hesitated. "If I may ask... have the other generals already given their opinions?"

"Indeed. Jadeite believes that we should strike immediately to gather the energy we so desperately need."

"I see." Translated, that meant that all four of the generals had had the same idea, if different in the details, and Jadeite was just the first one to voice his plan. "I... do not disagree with that aim. However, the execution..."

Beryl arched an eyebrow at him, and Ranma fell silent, just in case she wanted to say something.

"Continue." She drawled idly.

"Yes... It has been a very long time since we were first sealed away. We may well have been forgotten. Even so, simply going out and draining people will draw attention towards us that at this point we can ill afford. I agree with the need for energy, however we must be subtle."

"The senshi died at our sealing!" Beryl snarled, obviously not liking the way the conversation was going. Ranma cringed slightly, sensing a lot of pain in his near future if he wasn't careful.

"Of course, yes. Still, it has been a very long time. Even with the senshi dead, there is no assurance that there will be no opposition to us." Ranme said quickly, seeming to mollify the Queen somewhat. "Rather than focusing on gathering energy at the first available opportunity, information is what we need. If, of course, the opportunity to gather energy unnoticed should arise as well then so be it, but the priority must be on gathering information on what enemies there may be."

----

An idea I have been playing with is Ranma being sent back in time weeks after Saffron (with a copy of Sun Tzu's book) and becoming "Queen Ranko Saotome" the one and only Queen of the Dark Kingdom. Thanks to Queen Ranko's obsessive compulsion regarding Martial arts by the time the seal fails nearly every youma is a 1st Dan or higher in a version of Anything Goes that uses large hunks of Sun Tzu's teachings. Queen Ranko remember Nerima and so Jadeite's first project goes there and while he and Morga are doing recognizance the younger Ranma and Genma have their little fight and the Dark Kingdom and a now awake and previously puzzled Pluto realizes what has happened. Then things get fun.

[Blackcat101]

I love Lord Ranma, is a smart Ranma that actually is WEAKER than canon Ranma, he only has his BRAINS and AWESOME YET REALISTIC SWORDMAN SKILLS, plus a pair of youma to help him. Is also the only fic so far that deals with a smart general having to deal with the Dark Kingdom incompetence.

Making a competent dark kingdom by getting rid of Beryl and suppressing the Klingon Promotion is not that hard.

I really like the idea of Ranma as an evil overlord but sadly the fics I have found just overpower Ranma and give him an harem, nothing about using intelligence.

No fic about Ranma reading the evil overlord list sadly.

[PCHeintz72]

I love Lord Ranma, is a smart Ranma that actually is WEAKER than canon Ranma, he only has his BRAINS and AWESOME YET REALISTIC SWORDMAN SKILLS, plus a pair of youma to help him. Is also the only fic so far that deals with a smart general having to deal with the Dark Kingdom incompetence.

Making a competent dark kingdom by getting rid of Beryl and suppressing the Klingon Promotion is not that hard.

I really like the idea of Ranma as an evil overlord but sadly the fics I have found just overpower Ranma and give him an harem, nothing about using intelligence.

No fic about Ranma reading the evil overlord list sadly.

If that is what want, there is a AA thread that is devoted to the idea as well...

'Setsuna's Fault-Dark Lord Ranma' and sequel 'Dark Lord Ranma'

[Blackcat101]

If that is what want, there is a AA thread that is devoted to the idea as well...

'Setsuna's Fault-Dark Lord Ranma' and sequel 'Dark Lord Ranma'

Someone should turn it in a real fic, AA usually doesn't work as a story save for Dungeon Keeper Ami and they somewhat kicked that story from there as no new posts can be done for it.

"Besides, so far, Lord Ranma had yet to prove himself a failure as a leader, and that would be needed to galvanize any support to depose him. Sure, he was a little harsh, but he also didn’t set outlandish goals in energy collection, and then punish those who failed to meet them. He targeted places where large gatherings of humans formed; mostly sports stadiums, which provided a large amount of energy while not attracting attention. Then there were the locales where one would expect to be drained by circumstances or activity, and thus would not give suspicion that the Senshi would follow up on.

Though he himself did wonder what speech Sailor Moon would give when busting an operation at a prostitution house.

And it did make plenty of sense to placate the Senshi and local devil hunters for now, sending them after other threats that may one day try and intrude on their territory; also a maneuver that Beryl would not have considered. Oh, there was definitely a difference between a powerful ruler and a smart ruler. " from AA Setsuna's Fault-Dark Lord Ranma