Ranma - Senshi Assassin

[PCHeintz72]

Someone should turn it in a real fic, AA usually doesn't work as a story save for Dungeon Keeper Ami and they somewhat kicked that story from there as no new posts can be done for it.

Everyone keeps saying this... That is not really true. It is not specific stories or authors being targeted.

The problem is there is a glitch in the AA system they cannot figure out... *NO ONE* can update an episode if the episode number is between 261000 and 261999. What is weird... is it allows episodes 262000 and above.

The glitch started some 6 months ago.

[Blackcat101]

Well, Dark Lord Ranmahas been discontinued anyway. Too bad, it looked like a good story.

[Maximara]

Someone should turn it in a real fic, AA usually doesn't work as a story save for Dungeon Keeper Ami and they somewhat kicked that story from there as no new posts can be done for it.
Everyone keeps saying this... That is not really true. It is not specific stories or authors being targeted.

The problem is there is a glitch in the AA system they cannot figure out... *NO ONE* can update an episode if the episode number is between 261000 and 261999. What is weird... is it allows episodes 262000 and above.

The glitch started some 6 months ago.

I tried adding to a AA story some years ago and ran into the it won't save issue then so this bug seems to be in other aspects of the AA system as well. In retrospect AA reminds me of a comment Yahtzee's made on The World Ends With You: "like choose-your-own-adventure books with half the pages ripped out" Only in this case those pages never got written in the first place.

[Maximara]

Well, Dark Lord Ranmahas been discontinued anyway. Too bad, it looked like a good story.

The same can be said of Fire's Vengeance And A Half which stopped in mid story and as with most of Fire's stories was an interesting and exciting read.

[Blackcat101]

Well, as interesting as having Ranma ruling the Dark Kingdom would be, I will leave the job of writing said story to other people. But I might write a comedy where Pluto broke the time gates and most of the enemies of the senshi, and about haft of the Senshi, got replaced by characters from other universes.

[Maximara]

Crescent Pulsar S":"Uncontrolled" doesn't sound like how the Door of Time works at all, at least as far as the manga is concerned. I don't ever recall it not being reliable in any way. While it's true that time travel can be accomplished in other ways, the Door of Time would still be of interest to those who have not managed time travel themselves.

The point I was making about Crystal Tokyo is that there was nothing seen or referenced that would contradict Saturn not being a problem if left unsealed. The only problems that come up during those nine centuries had nothing to do with Saturn.

The gates of time are extremely dangerous unless you know how to navigate them...

Most Sailor Moon stories I encounter have fan fiction authors making it work like the Guardian of Forever from Star Trek (they may not call it that, but that is what they do). This is actually a large stone structure with a oblong opening in the front that allowed for viewing and scanning of any history asked for, and to jump through to where wanted if the jump is timed correctly. It is run by I what I guess you could call a sentient interactive AI, that was never made exactly clear, but it is close enough.

This is used by many to have Pluto able to use them like a TV to spy on and know *everything*. Which really is not how those gates work at all.

But equating the Time Gates to that is incorrect, they are not a viewing portal one merely jumps through, nor is there any interactions or dialog from it.

When using Sci Fi series references, closest is actually probably Time Tunnel, mixed with Voyagers. Time Tunnel actually had to be walked through, and even viewing stuff through them was tricky. Voyagers had no such viewer ability, but had tons of dimensions and times could end up in with the slightest misstep of the jump...

That last is important. The Time Gates as depicted in the Anime when they are sent forward had specific rules. Pluto warned them all not to deviate from the set path (and it was a long path, not any mere opening or simple corridor) or they could be lost forever in time and space. At no point is she actually shown viewing time using those gates.

That does not mean she cannot know future events, or other things that are chrono based, merely she is not shown using the gates to do them.


EDIT: as for threats... the biggest threat to Crystal Tokyo was actually Chibi Usa... she inadvertently caused all of it after all.

Well Time Tunnel and Voyagers! are not really good comparisons as both shows involved malfunctioning time machines. When they worked correctly the Time Tunnel and the Omni could put the traveler in a particular place at an exact date...something even the Guardian of Forever couldn't do in "City on the Edge of Forever" (It has that ability in the animated "Yesteryear" but the canon status of the entire animated series is iffy)

It certainly doesn't help that Sailor moon never settled on just how time travel worked in terms of changing history. Then you have that whole thing with the Ginzuishou being used to apparently reset the last year's worth of events to where they never happened...but does that mean the Dark Kingdom never existed, or that Beryl and the Generals never existed, or...you get the idea.

Then you have things like Mamoru being killed and Chibi Usa is fine but when he is put into a dreamless sleep later on she start to fade from existence...HOW does that work?!?

[Spica75]

That would make them more like El Hazard... more ceremonial in nature than any effective fighting force. (a single high school student in charge of their enemy nearly decimated all the allied nations, when realistically they should have been able to steamroll the Bugrum).

I actually have a hard time believing that to be the case. I never said they could not fight... merely that they had practically no ability to think in terms of tactics and planning...

And if it is the case, and they were more political than effective fighters... what does that say for the Moon Kingdom senshi.

No no no, where did you get the notion that a political general can´t be a military power by themself?
What it means is that they are spending a great amount of time and effort on improving or maintaining their position, their ruler´s favour and the scheming needed for that. That they´re distracting themselves because if they didn´t, then they would get trashed by their fellow "generals" or their overall leader.

That´s why Göring was such a good example, he was actually quite competent, but he was so obsessed to keep his own personal "empire" empowered and running that he greatly damaged war efforts by his insistant scheming and forcing anything that could even remotely be considered having anything to do with airplanes under his command, including paratroopers and anti-air guns.

Most of all though, generals vs senshi? They are NOT fighting a war. They are under pressure, have limited resources and opposition that they simply cannot take seriously even when proven that they should, while fighting tooth and nail not to get discarded, permanently or not, by scheming at "court".

That simply does not allow for much serious tactics and strategy. Not to forget, their ideas on what that IS, is probably very irrelevant by the time they face the senshi. Made worse by the fact that they ARE very powerful individuals, meaning that they have generally learned that brute force solves anything, if not, they´re not using enough brute force.

A variation on so called "victory disease". A very real problem even for real world militaries.

[Spica75]

I have yet to read a story where one of the generals tries to apply The Art of War and deals with the other three generals trying to back-stab him and Beryl insanity.
...

That´s probably because there is a severe risk of the generals curbstomping the senshi. Most of the time the generals have to be nerfed even from their flawed "fighting", just to keep from killing the senshi with a wave of the hand.

And i actually DO have a very longterm project(ie don´t expect anything from it anytime soon) where the generals, after an initial noseburn shape up a decent bit. But i can do that without making it onesided only because the "good guys(girls)" has a LOT more power on their side from start.

If i did that against regular senshi, i would have to turn their luck factor up so high it would become extremely silly, or the senshi would be dead within days or weeks at most.

(the crossover uses lots of characters from Ranma and Nanoha(and some from Bamboo Blade), with events of 1st season of Nanoha happening before dark kingdom attacks(triggering Saturn early).
Essentially it´s a variation on the old "Ranma just being alive messes with Pluto" scheme, but this time when she´s trying to deal with it, she unknowingly and accidentally retroactively mess with reality(one of those things she´s REALLY not allowed to do), so she ends up with something that has great potential for a good ending(far better than the original canon), but also likely to get bloodier in the process, while having requirements she doesn´t understand(at least not until much later)... The original reasoning for this fic actually was something like "how can i let the generals come out to play at full power without having them win?")

[PCHeintz72]

Well Time Tunnel and Voyagers! are not really good comparisons as both shows involved malfunctioning time machines.

Correct, ditto Dr. Who for that matter. But I was referring to proper intended functioning of the devices in original design. In that respect they are relatively close to the Time Gates.

The point being, they are not really a 'Temporal TV' of any sorts.

That´s why Göring was such a good example

Not for me, as I never heard of it.

That simply does not allow for much serious tactics and strategy.

Sorry, I cannot buy that excuse, certainly not on the long term... they were humiliated so many times, and suffered so many defeats, that certainly by the time Jedite was finally defeated and Beryl got so fed up she sealed him they *definitely* had the motivation to take them serious.

That´s probably because there is a severe risk of the generals curbstomping the senshi.

There is at least one story out there that a OC made the mistake of killing Jedite right off... and convincing Kuzinite the Senshi and their secret backup was so powerful that it would take extreme measures to defeat.

The guy came in prepared for bear, and the Senshi and ally really barely fought him off and survived, all with fairly bad injuries and one death. The OC basically used a anti matter bullet point blank and the guy survived.

These generals in canon have shown energy drains, shields, energy prisons, swordfighting, teleporting, and even traditional fighting when pushed... To sum it up... Ability wise they easily in canon darn well *could* curbstop senshi, especially as they were in first season.

But as I said, had this been done, that would have made for a poor show.

They could have done any number of things to truly kill the senshi off. They could have had multiple simultaneous operations further away from the stomping grounds and multiple youma on each. They could have set up better ambushes, could have had a youma ordered not to be seen and followed them to their homes because learning even one and killing them in their sleep is a huge win. They could have had two generals on site. They could have attacked schools in force... forcing either a transformation that could bee seen, or catching them off guard and getting them while still in civilian form.

That they did none of these or countless other better attempted plans I could think of, even after being provoked over so long a time, is inexcusable from a tactics standpoint.


Additionally, the senshi quite frankly did not take their situation seriously... They had super powered beings supposedly quite comfortable and knowledgeable of their own abilities targeting them. They did not go to the government for joint help, they did not really train, they did not really try pushing themselves to explore their abilities (except Jupiter, though that was her martial arts, not her senshi powers). If I had found out I was being targeted, I damn well would have been training, would have set as many traps and made it as difficult to get to me as possible... I would have had even traditional weapons on my person in a just in case scenario, knives, pepper spray, anything to get even a momentary surprise advantage (and no, I do not believe a general would be taken down by such, but might give a momentary pause.). I would have 'put the bag' on the moon cats and given them the interrogation of a lifetime to squeeze every last bit of info from them. Hell, I would have tried capturing an enemy to learn of their plans, their setup, their abilities, etc....

[Té Rowan]

I once had this idea come to mind: What if there were an organisation that trained magical girls? I got that idea from reading a discussion on the Season 1 villains in SM.

[Spica75]

These generals in canon have shown energy drains, shields, energy prisons, swordfighting, teleporting, and even traditional fighting when pushed... To sum it up... Ability wise they easily in canon darn well *could* curbstop senshi, especially as they were in first season.

That was kinda my point yes.

They could have attacked schools in force... forcing either a transformation that could bee seen

Uh... Tokyo, the population of midsized country in the largest urban sprawl, just how many schools do you think there are there?

They could have had two generals on site.

Only realistic if specifically and forcefully ORDERED by Beryl.

or catching them off guard and getting them while still in civilian form.

Again, millions of people in the area, how do you randomly find the right ones?

could have had a youma ordered not to be seen and followed them to their homes because learning even one and killing them in their sleep is a huge win.

Yes but also an almost completely worthless win in regards to court standings.
Not to mention youma generally being blunt instruments and the risk of senshi detecting them.

They could have set up better ambushes,

Not enough potential for grandstanding and showing off. Court politics is too important.

They could have had multiple simultaneous operations further away from the stomping grounds and multiple youma on each.

Hints are that there were a lot of limits on what and how much they could do. Otherwise yes.

Additionally, the senshi quite frankly did not take their situation seriously... They had super powered beings supposedly quite comfortable and knowledgeable of their own abilities targeting them. They did not go to the government for joint help, they did not really train, they did not really try pushing themselves to explore their abilities (except Jupiter, though that was her martial arts, not her senshi powers). If I had found out I was being targeted, I damn well would have been training, would have set as many traps and made it as difficult to get to me as possible... I would have had even traditional weapons on my person in a just in case scenario, knives, pepper spray, anything to get even a momentary surprise advantage (and no, I do not believe a general would be taken down by such, but might give a momentary pause.). I would have 'put the bag' on the moon cats and given them the interrogation of a lifetime to squeeze every last bit of info from them. Hell, I would have tried capturing an enemy to learn of their plans, their setup, their abilities, etc....

That however to a large extent is hindsight talking. You can just look at military history, a century at a time and you can find a whole bunch of mistakes on this level. Because it´s a big difference being on the spot, IN the situation than looking at it from the outside after the fact.

Sorry, I cannot buy that excuse, certainly not on the long term... they were humiliated so many times, and suffered so many defeats, that certainly by the time Jedite was finally defeated and Beryl got so fed up she sealed him they *definitely* had the motivation to take them serious.

And up until that point they had gotten used to the only battles being court politics or youma smackdowns.

[Maximara]

They could have done any number of things to truly kill the senshi off. They could have had multiple simultaneous operations further away from the stomping grounds and multiple youma on each. They could have set up better ambushes, could have had a youma ordered not to be seen and followed them to their homes because learning even one and killing them in their sleep is a huge win. They could have had two generals on site. They could have attacked schools in force... forcing either a transformation that could bee seen, or catching them off guard and getting them while still in civilian form.

That they did none of these or countless other better attempted plans I could think of, even after being provoked over so long a time, is inexcusable from a tactics standpoint.

All too true but as Sun Tzu says "the best warfare strategy is to attack the enemy's plans" Starting to kill the senshi off is needless and could motivate the remainder to get their act together. Simply having multiple simultaneous operations would have had them run so ragged they likely couldn't fight once they got to an operation or divide their ability to fight as a unit. Try to capture one and "turn" her.

"Replace the enemy's flags and standards with our own. Mix the captured chariots with our own, treat the captured soldiers well." - Sun Tzu Chapter 3: Planning Attacks

Additionally, the senshi quite frankly did not take their situation seriously... They had super powered beings supposedly quite comfortable and knowledgeable of their own abilities targeting them. They did not go to the government for joint help, they did not really train, they did not really try pushing themselves to explore their abilities (except Jupiter, though that was her martial arts, not her senshi powers). If I had found out I was being targeted, I damn well would have been training, would have set as many traps and made it as difficult to get to me as possible... I would have had even traditional weapons on my person in a just in case scenario, knives, pepper spray, anything to get even a momentary surprise advantage (and no, I do not believe a general would be taken down by such, but might give a momentary pause.). I would have 'put the bag' on the moon cats and given them the interrogation of a lifetime to squeeze every last bit of info from them. Hell, I would have tried capturing an enemy to learn of their plans, their setup, their abilities, etc....

Going to the government early on may have not done any good as governments in the real world and fiction don't generally like vigilantes. Also the generals could have easily nixed that idea by having a youma disguised as a Senshi attack an important official...which goes back to the fact that both sides are morons in terms of anything actually resembling tactics.

As for the rest... remember for the most part the Senshi's foes are youma not the generals themselves. Also the generals are ridiculously powerful (Jadeite tries to run over three Senshi with jumbo jets he is controlling with his powers in the anime) and IIRC tend to attack at a distance so close range weapons are not going to work too well.

As for an interrogation of the moon cats IIRC their memories are as or more swiss cheesed then Dr. Sam Beckett's and how would they know anything about how the current generals operate? Again if any general had applied even a minimal of Sun Tzu's actual tactic of attacking the enemy's plans the Senshi would have been totally helpless.

[LawOhki]

I think the greatest success of this thread is illustrating how dumb the anime was for it's monster of the weak, drag everything out format. The actions of the bad guys aren't supposed to make any sense until the last few episodes when things can hold weight and the story can be closed out before the next season. It's just there to pad out the run time. Almost worse than the lengthy transformation/attack scenes.

And how much people overrate the art of war as inspiration for fics.

[Blackcat101]

That´s probably because there is a severe risk of the generals curbstomping the senshi. Most of the time the generals have to be nerfed even from their flawed "fighting", just to keep from killing the senshi with a wave of the hand.

And i actually DO have a very longterm project(ie don´t expect anything from it anytime soon) where the generals, after an initial noseburn shape up a decent bit. But i can do that without making it onesided only because the "good guys(girls)" has a LOT more power on their side from start.

If i did that against regular senshi, i would have to turn their luck factor up so high it would become extremely silly, or the senshi would be dead within days or weeks at most.

(the crossover uses lots of characters from Ranma and Nanoha(and some from Bamboo Blade), with events of 1st season of Nanoha happening before dark kingdom attacks(triggering Saturn early).
Essentially it´s a variation on the old "Ranma just being alive messes with Pluto" scheme, but this time when she´s trying to deal with it, she unknowingly and accidentally retroactively mess with reality(one of those things she´s REALLY not allowed to do), so she ends up with something that has great potential for a good ending(far better than the original canon), but also likely to get bloodier in the process, while having requirements she doesn´t understand(at least not until much later)... The original reasoning for this fic actually was something like "how can i let the generals come out to play at full power without having them win?")

Bad guy wins can be used in a fanfic after all, also you can bet that Ami, if played straight, could soon learn what strategies the enemies are using and start using the art of war herself.

Basically, you could have both the Senshi and The Dark Kingdom using the art of war. How about a chance encounter?

Jadeite, hours before Sailor Moon first appears, is enjoying walking under the sun in one of his human disguises, after all the sun was not something he could enjoy in the dark kingdom, and it was truly a beautiful day. He finds Amy Muzimo in the park, reading a book, and gets curious. The book happens to be The Art of War...

There! You have both an excuse to both teams to use the art of war without involving any Ocs or even making it a crossover.

I think the greatest success of this thread is illustrating how dumb the anime was for it's monster of the weak, drag everything out format. The actions of the bad guys aren't supposed to make any sense until the last few episodes when things can hold weight and the story can be closed out before the next season. It's just there to pad out the run time. Almost worse than the lengthy transformation/attack scenes.

And how much people overrate the art of war as inspiration for fics.

Actually, the main inspiration is this: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6154206/1/ ... -s-Victory

Ami would just not STOP at the art of war, she would also read anything that could help.

[Spica75]

Bad guy wins can be used in a fanfic after all, also you can bet that Ami, if played straight, could soon learn what strategies the enemies are using and start using the art of war herself.

Oh without doubt. Problem is that the learning curve for that, even as quickly as she could probably get past it, commonly includes failures. And in this case such would likely mean senshi dead. And since those can´t really be replaced(who knows, they might get reborn again, but it would still take time as AFAIK, only Saturn grows up as fast as is needed ), while there´s a fair amount of youma in reserve, well even a war of attrition is an automatic win for the generals.

Worse still, a war drawn out too long is likely to allow the generals to get the needed energy to get Metallia up and kicking. That´s auto LOOSE as well for the senshi.

Basically, you could have both the Senshi and The Dark Kingdom using the art of war. How about a chance encounter?

Jadeite, hours before Sailor Moon first appears, is enjoying walking under the sun in one of his human disguises, after all the sun was not something he could enjoy in the dark kingdom, and it was truly a beautiful day. He finds Amy Muzimo in the park, reading a book, and gets curious. The book happens to be The Art of War...

There! You have both an excuse to both teams to use the art of war without involving any Ocs or even making it a crossover.

Nah, that would feel like a very stretched event. It would have to be extremely well written not to break immersion by being too implausible.