Ranma/Star Wars X-Wing cross

[bissek]

You might be talking about the fact that Corran has the ability to absorb energy directed at him and use it to power force abilities. This was supposedly a fairly rare Jedi technique. I think Tyria Sarkin of Wraith Squadron may also have it. It would explain how she could get dumped into a garbage incinerator and only suffer scorched bootsoles when everyone else who fell in was literally on fire and had to be taken off the flight roster for at least a week until they recovered. With this trick, there's probably an upper limit to the amount of energy one can absorb before you have to use some of it, as well as an upper limit to the rate of energy drain (To 'eat' a blaster bolt you'd have to drain it VERY quickly). I also doubt that the energy was meant to be stored for prolonged periods of time, so stored energy probably leaks out after a while.
There are two practical counters for this ability, and I'm sure Ranma would think of at least one. First, you can swamp the Jedi with more energy than they can absorb at one time, or at a rate they can't handle. Second, you can use a mix of energy and physical attacks so that the Jedi cannot focus on one type of defense. Sooner or later something will slip through.

[Pale Wolf]

Rather simple to do those disruptions and blocks, actually.
The trick is to ignore the visual effect (nothing), and think about what's really being done to make their powers work. They reach out - think of it as tendrils of Force.
If Ranma can manipulate his ki to that degree and it's actually capable of interfacing with the Force energy, he could potentially block and parry anything they can put up. Of course, this'd be something developed way later, I'd imagine, considering how effective it could make him. Another thing to consider is whether he could actually see where the Force tendrils are going - if he can, then he can block as he normally does; if he can't, then he's pretty much fighting blind - limited to guessing where the attack's going, trying to cover all the bases, or taking apart an attack that's already started.
And naturally, the level of ki-control that'd require... A Jedi with that kind of control over the Force would be a fricken god. Great to have a challenge lined up, eh?

[Mitchell]

While Connans ability to absorb energy and convert it to force energy is interesting its not what I am refering to.
In I, Jedi Connan realises that some jedi abilities can be done using the internal reserve of force energy that every Jedi has. Connan's reserve was deep enough to do some stuff with the force, however other things would require him literally touching the force itself.

[crystlshake]

One thing that stuck out in that discussion for me was the argument about Ranma's comparitive precog ability. While the ability may give input fast enough to the Jedi to understand it if Ranma were throwing a single punch and intercept without issue, the volume of input and variety of attack vectors would probably overwhelm most pretty quickly leaving them (the Jedi) frozen from data overload (not able to physically keep up and compensate for all of the attacks) and eventually more or less lagging out like an overworked computer until enough hits got thrue to end the issue. This is assuming it works as more of a kind of mind reading ability, they would be overwhelmed. If it works as more of reading the most likely incoming attacks they would probably fair better but have a chance of being thrown off guard by the number of possible attack vectors their opponenet is generating and possibly by the volume flagged as most likely incoming-especially with an amiguriken incoming. I think some of this concept would apply even to a spar and not just a real fight. Could even be argued that the more sensitive the user the more data they collect and the more staggering the encounter would be.
In my opinion even someone like Yoda may be a bit taken aback by the vectors that Ranma's non stance would generate for each of his own movements. The lethality of the lightsaber would probably be a pretty big issue to overcome in close combat. I dont think Ranma would enter a fight against someone using one without some backup tricks (same could be said of someone wielding a pistol type weapon). He'd probably be able to dodge to cover with only a few people firing at him (depending on the rate of fire) but a sizable group would pose a problem pretty quickly as any direct hits would still do enough damage to take seriously. Although a single assasin attacking from concealment may find tagging him with something fairly difficult if its not an area effect type of weapon.
In one on one or one on small group battles Ranma would probably come out fairly well (if there werent too many suprises thrown at him). In a larger scale battle against a mass of opponents I think the Jedi would have an advantage by posesing a greater defense against projectiles that cant be caught or blocked with the body and access to directable area effect attacks (mostly thinking force push/throw style telekenisis with this). As to who would last longer it would depend on the enemy they were fighting, any allies they can rely on to cover them and how much the given Jedi can suplement their stamina with force use to give additional staying power. One on one I think Ranma would have the stamina advantage when the battle shifted into high gear. The more drawn out the fight and more 'rest' time that the Jedi gets between exchanges- the more advantage they would obtain (getting more back durring lapses). Course with a difficult opponent and incentive to end the battle quickly Ranma would pull some tactic or trick to end it quickly or decisively to at least give him time to escape depending on the situation surrounding the battle.
Jedi of a non-human or less humanoid makeup would give him much more trouble untill he gained some combat experience against them. Say like the wookie's strength or a given species appearence/ unique body structure. He'd fight more warily than against an opponent that looks mostly human since he has less of an idea of what to expect. Fighting a species able to use a tail or something else in combat would take some getting used to and could throw him enough to entail a loss if it catches him really bad. Although the Saotome Secret Technique may see the light of day before he lets it get to that point if he can help it.

[bissek]

You seem to be under the impression that Ranma's mind functions similarly to Tycho's when fighting. That isn't necessarily true. Remember, while Tycho views his opponent as a point with lines connecting to it describing possible actions and appropriate responses, Gavin's mind is more like a narrowing blade, and Piggy views space combat in terms of mathematical equations. Reading your opponents mind while fighting gives an edge, but as no two minds are alike, there's no universal approach to take advantage of it. The only real counter to this without mental shielding is to deliberately disrupt your own thought patterns, and that's something that Ranma isn't likely to think of.
The other factor in a Jedi vs non-Jedi battle is the Jedi sense of relative position. This is used all throughout the movies, to track and intercept blaster bolts and to fire torpedos with pinpoint accuracy without a computer. When applied to close combat, this is a deadly skill, enabling you to know exactly where your opponent is and where he is moving. A good example of this would be the short-lived TV series Firefly. The telepathic River shoots and kills three people with as many shots without even looking in their direction. Her 6th sense gives her all she needs to know to aim at them. In the movie, she goes up against over a dozen Reavers unarmed, and walks out of the battle with a sword and an axe, with only minor injuries, and surrounded by dead Reavers. The only counters to this are speed - it doesn't matter if you can track an enemy if you can't act on the knowledge - or to start the attack outside of sensory range and hope they don't have time to dodge once they sense it. This option is trickier, as the sensory range of Luke Skywalker started at the maximum range of a X-wing's torpedo lock sensor - at least- as shown in SW: A New Hope when he used that sense instead of the sensor. That's somewhere around a mile and a half. It's probably gone up since then. Even if you assume that the range goes down when sensing in all directions rather than at a specific point, outside the range is probably outside practical attack range unless you're a crack sniper or can call in an orbital bombardment.
Kell once gave a lecture on the proper way to attack a Wookie - keep your distance between strikes, rely on speed rather than strength, apply leverage to joints and go for pressure points. All species have weak points, and Ranma would be smart to study the basic anatomy of various exotics to know where those are.

[crystlshake]

Actually I have little to no SW knowledge outside of the movies. I just used the terminology to flesh out what I was thinking in a way that made it communicable. I didnt know about the other perceptions of intent that you mentioned or really think about that aspect of the 'mind reading' approach. It deffinitely gives some descriptive characterization though. Just the differences between the descriptions of the thought processes of the characters you mentioned gives insight to their nature. Gavins especially was striking with the blade analogy. I guess the main point I was trying to communicate was that Ranma uses more of his body to attack with than say a stereo typical sword user. Where as the weapon user would likely attack predominately with just the weapon, Ranma is just as likely to attack with either hand. With a higher likely hood to use his feet than the sword guy and take advantage of using his joints/limbs for additional attacks. Im not saying that the Jedi would be near that easy for him to overcome as they are more likely to use backswing and a wider range of attacks (both physical and otherwise) than your average weilder. Im thinking that it would take someone with battle experience or some decent force tricks and/or lightsaber to overcome him- all hinging on a real fight without other alternatives. Really it would take a bit of setup or misunderstanding for Ranma to push himself in a battle with a Jedi. Psychologicly I dont see them as being at odds under normal conditions, perhaps neutral but it would take a little build up at least to push them at eachother's throats.
One Jedi proposing they stop fighting and talk it over would probably be enough to put a lull and at least a tentative peace in place to continue discusion.
The relative position thing you brought up also covers something else I considered after my first post. Some of what Ranma does in a fight might not be thought up or even planned so much as instinct. The reletive position thing takes care of that handily as long as the Jedi can move fast enough to dodge/intercept the strike. It may become pretty difficult and put them on the defensive if he lets loose on them with a long combo but at that point is up to the author's discretion as to whether they are up to the task and for how long. Id imagine that the strain would get at them after a while as that type of close combat might not allow as much of the flowing defense that works so well deflecting blasters. I figure any Jedi that has a few years or so of combat experience/ training would put up a decent fight with the curve climbing steeply as either the skill or experience gets higher. Id put Ranma in good form somewhere around the level of a Jedi with a decent amount of combat emphasis and some worldly experience (say 2-10yrs depending on the training and amount of combat situations they've been in).
Your descriptions peaked my interest though. If I get the time or opportunity Ill have to check out the novels and see what else Im missing with just movie knowledge. The additional insight may sway how I rate his chances.

[Mitchell]

bissek, you have to remember that Luke Skywalker is probably aroound one of hte most powerful force users ever. THe only person who could probably use more force energy than him would be pre-crippled Vader. NOt all Jedi can use their senses to the extent that Luke can, even when he had nearly no training.
In I, Jedi while training at the Jedi accademy using his senses as a sphere I think that Conan could get somewhere around 50-75 meters, and with just focusing on one direction it was something like 250 meters.
While still a big disadvantage his senses are not at the range of Luke, who in one of the novels reached out from Yavin 4 all the way to corrousant and touched Leia's mind. Disregarding the twin mental bond, we are talking dozens of light years in distance.

[bissek]

In a realistic duel with swords or fists, most of the time the two opponents will be within three meters of each other, and will rarely be more than ten meters apart. If you know how to integrate that with your defense, a sensory range of fifty meters is enough to make you virtually unhittable in melee combat. In order to attempt anime-style gundancing, you'd need to have a range of two to three hundred meters. Any attempt to use this in a dogfight would require a range of three to five kilometers, minimum. This kind of range is probably limited to sensory specialists and Masters.
As such, even a low-level skill with sensing is enough to make hand-to-hand combat difficult so long as the Jedi can integrate the sense into his fighting style.

[Light02]

enough of the Jedi tai Ranma battles it's getting way off topic for this section unfortunatlly I have no intention of makeing Ranma capable of fighting a Jedi at all that's way over powering of the character espically for what I'm planging.

[crystlshake]

Good point. Given Ranma's luck he's much more likely to be running for his life after ending up in an embarassing situation due to comedic misshap than fighting a Jedi.
I could just see him tripping up durring an infiltration attempt of one of the Huts or something and landing in a harem tub. After coughing up a mouthful of water and glancing around with wide eyes at all the women staring at him, apologizing sheepishly before bolting like the hounds of hell were at his heels. Primary mission infiltration: Fail. Secondary mission distraction: 120% Success.
I wonder if there are other species with some of his abilities or knowledge he would be confused with or compared to. Perhaps there is one that can create light like a glow bug with its skin or something.

[Akhorahil]

Yes... And said weapon, the Force, is utterly inherent to them. Your point?
Unless you're seriously trying to make that pathetic 'weapon-users are weak' argument
to put it simple a sword is bound to forms like slash and stab, there is no way for Ranma to block one, he has to evade/dodge all attacks, so the best way for him fighting a Jedi is, hide in the Umi sen ken and do sniping, or evade the fight entirly, if he gets in close enough the Lightsabre may become a liability ... the blade hurts anything it touches ... the Force as a weapon itself is only employed by Sith ( as far as i know) the point of this dioscussion is, you say Ranma never stands a chance against a Jedi (thats what i get of your posts) I say he may win, if he gets realy serious ... and fast.
Telekinesis may be the biggest advantage a Jedi has ... but as far as i know has Ranma some Experiances with stuff like this ... i think Happosai did something along that line.
Ranma as a pilot ... mhm may be if and only if he accepts killing...
you dont beat up an enemy starship ^^

[Pale Wolf]

to put it simple a sword is bound to forms like slash and stab

Utter bullshit. Crappy sword-users, and people who practice styles that are more about form than effectiveness (coughcoughkendocough) are bound to forms. You're comparing Kuno to Ranma, and saying that's an adequate comparison of sword versus unarmed.
In addition, you seem to be making an even dumber error - you seem to think that someone wielding a sword is suddenly limited to only using the sword. The sword is an addition, a tool, something that expands a person's combat options.

the Force as a weapon itself is only employed by Sith ( as far as i know)

Hardly. If you call Jedi weapon-users, then their weapon is the Force - a Jedi is still a Jedi without a lightsaber.
As far as 'only employed by Sith' goes... True, you don't see many directly offensive uses done by the Jedi themselves. However, they can do them.
Let's see... telekinetic grab on an object, throw it into a person. Weapon.
Force-choke. Weapon.
Applying telekinesis to rip apart someone's internal organs (as observed in one of the comics - done by a Jedi, not Sith). Weapon.
Force-lightning. Weapon.
Using the Force to rip apart an enemy's mind (Luke contemplated doing this at one point). Weapon.
And then, of course, there's all the massive advantages with physical boosting, spatial coordination, sensory abilities, friggen telepathy, precognition... I'd call those even more valuable weapons.

the point of this dioscussion is, you say Ranma never stands a chance against a Jedi (thats what i get of your posts)

You seem to think those are the only sides of the issue. I'm saying you're arguing with such poor evidence that it throws your own side into doubt.

I say he may win, if he gets realy serious ... and fast.

I'll agree that he has the potential to do so - assuming he has some way to get over or around the Jedi's massive innate advantages.
Although, against your run-of-the-mill half-civilian Jedi, he'd pretty much win.

Telekinesis may be the biggest advantage a Jedi has ... but as far as i know has Ranma some Experiances with stuff like this ... i think Happosai did something along that line.

No, Ranma's never fought a psychic.

[Akhorahil]

mhm ...
i think i should mention i just watched the movies ^^

[android33s]

hello all, after reading all this the question is how do the force and chi interact with each other. Jedi can all sense the force in others and if Ranma is force blind they would sense none from him and push him down in there threart assesment. Ranma can sense chi I would assume that most Jedi would not come up high in chi as they focus in train in other areas. Pushing them down on Ranma's threat list. Outcome massive underestimation on both parts.
If the two are totally seperate what effect do they have on each other is it an oil and water mix or more like AC current and DC current. Does the pressence of alot of chi mess with the force being used on him like the one critter from the books. It was a predator that was almost immune to the force to the point of being a blank spot.
It would come down to the level of the Jedi I would think Luke would take him after a few surprises, and apprentice or newly promoted knight would lose.
Alot of talk of telekenesis all right jedi concentrates picks up Ranma no biggie. Jedi sucks up MT where did that come from he has no blaster and no force abilities!!!
As for precog they see the possible flows in the force is how it is described. Some one a Ranma level has Zanshin the abilty feel the ebb and flow of there oppents chi to predict there moves. They probably equal out.
The force is described as flow and conecting all things kind of Universal subconsious. Ranma uses his chi and the chi of his enviriomet the spirtual enegy of the Universe.
There would be some overlap and one could do things the other could not as the Jedi have no clue of chi and Ranma has no clue of the force the two would confuse the heck out of each other.

[Pale Wolf]

Outcome massive underestimation on both parts.

Good point. With underestimation going on, I'd have to give the victory to the Jedi - Ranma's abilities require a lot less planning to get around, and the Jedi would have more of a 'surprise' factor. Can't forget, either, that with a Jedi's ability to read minds, underestimation will fall apart pretty quickly. And Ranma doesn't usually win first time 'round against an opponent he hasn't fought before.
On the other hand, he could pull out a victory, with his rather quick planning/battle mind.

It would come down to the level of the Jedi I would think Luke would take him after a few surprises

To be frank, I think that's the only fair comparison. The best of both worlds. You don't send Ranma against Kuno and claim it's an accurate representation of unarmed combatants and swordsmen.

Jedi sucks up MT where did that come from he has no blaster and no force abilities!!!

And... that absorption technique is only applicable to those? Hardly. It absorbs ambient energy - a powerful enough user could take a turbolaser blast from a fricken Star Destroyer (of course, said powerful enough user is probably theoretical...)
What it comes down to is this: is the Mouko Takabisha actually an energy blast, or is it just compressed air? In the former case, bye-bye tiger. In the latter, the Jedi'll still get smacked even after he absorbs the ki.

Some one a Ranma level has Zanshin the abilty feel the ebb and flow of there oppents chi to predict there moves.

But the Jedi's ability to do so has been proven, Ranma's is just conjecture.

The force is described as flow and conecting all things kind of Universal subconsious. Ranma uses his chi and the chi of his enviriomet the spirtual enegy of the Universe.

And of course, this is the point that'd really have to get resolved to minimize overlap if you insist Force isn't chi. Since the Force is based off chi and is essentially the same thing...
'course, you can also gloss over it by never having them fight, as Light clearly desires.