The Return ch14

[Sunshine Temple]

bHazard
I just reread the passages on the conversion of the Roman Legion, and I believe I can tell you a bit more about Roman engineering and statecraft.
To put it quite simply there was never such a thing as Roman engineering, whatever construction styles they used they stole from the Greeks, or the Etruscans, of which the latter did the same as the Romans did.
[yes they took most of their technology?
[so?
[It was still engineering that they were using.
[BlackSky was shown it from them.
The Romans also were never great thinkers in any form of the word, philosophy and knowledge growth pretty much stagnated or recessed across the board once the Mediterranean learning centers were conquered. That's not to say there wasn't any progress, but it was rather slow.
[how is this relevant from the story?
[BlackSky never said they were genius. They did have techniques that she found useful.
That said however, Romans knew how to outfit and organise an army, though their tactics were essentially crap.
But back on the outfitting and organising: If it could be standardised it was standardised, including the plans for the army camps, wether a legionary was stationed in the far reaches of Britain or Egypt didn't matter, he'd find his way.
[Where's the relevance to the story?
Romans also knew how to count, and there are records that they send people on at the time very time consuming tasks like mapping out how much hectares the Iberic Peninsula now exactly is. That, combined with the understanding that a large empire needs a large network of welkept roads and that cities need excellent supplies of fresh water and quick and efficient disposal of waste are Rome's greatest gifts to Man.
[Yeah agreeded.
Also, you said that while it was BlackSky's clan that converted the Romans, Alexia was never mentioned explicatly in that passage. You have me a bit confused here. And it was quite possible there were no losses, very small chance but possible, just fight a war of attrition converting a cohort or 2 at a time. They are succubae and the men most likely without their wives or any other company for more than a year.
[that was a typo on my part. Sorry. Meant BlackSky there.
[What's wrong with you?
[BlackSky never said there were no loses.
[Why are you still thinking this?
[Yes there are many ways BlackSky could have gotten them.
On Ranma receiving that book of hers, knowing Succubae, it's probably both.
[What?
The chances of Succubae not being photogenic would be rather slim I suppose, but that might be the hormones talking.
[Huh? They are photogenic...
True, you didn't show us how the Holy See works, but it's the kind of nutty thinking I can see fanatics do... whatever you call it, a war to exterminate or bring a very permanent end to a religion or a people or whatever it is you want out of the world, I believe is genocide. And the Church may have swept it under the rug but it has tried, and in atleast two cases I know of succeeded in doing just that.
[Uh... again I didn't show anything about the Holy See
[You can't infer that they're currently a bunch of genocidal fanatics.
[You'd be much better if you stopped putting in your own assumptions and such.
[Like thinking that BlackSky said there were no losses.
Fafhrd
Overall I enjoyed this chapter, there were some interesting twists.
I did think the sections with Kodachi were lacking somewhat, mainly in that there wasn't a conclusion to it. Will there be more with her later?
[yup.
Nariko seems to be developing into a more interesting character than earlier chapters indicated was possible.
[that's very good ^_^
Blacksky was an interesting twist as well. I also liked the additional information on Ranma's past.
[good.
I also noticed this:
"All I did was make ensure the best mother would win."
make sure
"Nariko... your sister is on leave and would you like to see her?"
better as "Nariko... your sister is on leave, would you like to see her?"
[put in the corrections. Will be reflected when I reupload the chapter later
"Ranma should have expected this. She remembered another introverted succubus that got out of her shell... when around the right personalities."
such as maybe Darkstar around Puu?
[maybe ;p
I have more, but for some reason I have to cut it short to get it to actually preview/post
this didnt sound right:
"She's also not under 5 feet tall, nor is the younger sister. Of course she was also not a succubus either."
nor is SHE the younger sister
works better for me, the original way seemed awkward, it is probably correct either way
"And are you the amoral grifter who would take the fillings form a dead man?"
fillings FROM a dead man
[got these ones in too
"Can't. Her mom is over."
not sure there was enough around this for me to know why Ami can't see Janet when her Mom is over. For instance, why would Janet's Mom be 'over' as opposed to living there. I feel this needs a little explanation
[*coughs* maybe they wanted to do something that they couldn't do when Janet's mom was home.
"They want me. I'll draw their attention while Jupiter, Venus, and Ami rescue the hostages."
I would think it would be Jupiter, Venus, and MERCURY
[yah, good eye there

[Fafhrd]

"You heard the, princess,"

You heard the Princess - don't think you need the coma there, not sure on the capitalisation

Nabiki, who had quietly followed, had been watching, and had a retort ready, but decided this was Mother's job.

Eliminate the and from and had a retort, and only works as the last item, and the but is filling in for it.

"They still got justice from a mother," Ranma smirked.

Don't think that coma is necessary

"I'm not detect anything. The only magic here was from this thing,"

think you need an ing tacked on to detect up there^

Nice one Mina," Mercury sighed

Is that mina as in Minako or mina as in japanese word for everyone. Either its misspelled or these girls are really getting bad at using thier civilian names while transformed.

[Sunshine Temple]

"They still got justice from a mother," Ranma smirked.
Don't think that coma is necessary

no it's quite neccessay there.

Is that mina as in Minako or mina as in japanese word for everyone. Either its misspelled or these girls are really getting bad at using thier civilian names while transformed.

truie

[Fafhrd]

"You're not going to see her naked," Rei stated as she bared the entrance to the Company locker room

Well, Usagi has bared herself but I think Rei should have barred Ranma from entering

Usagi glared at the redhead. "That's no justification. I'm really am a monster. I'm going to destroy the world."

I really am - 'm removed

"Well yeah."

Use one of those spare comas here - "Well, yeah"

"Serenity tried to help... but that just mean I was born male and human this time around too

The too at the end is unnecessary/redundant - unles thats how you want Ranma to talk.

"Succubus agents? Weird." Nabiki knew that the brood was close to the agents, but there was always a bit of a line between the Company and the WIC

the Brood?
Oh, and sorry for all the little posts but it hangs on me when I get longer than this.

[Sunshine Temple]

That's okay. got the corretions.

[Druid]

A quick note to the impatient, it takes a LOT of time to just write out something this long, let alone edit for grammar/spelling/continuity etc. Be gratefull that this story is being made available at all, I am.
Moving on them....
I finished reading this just before I went to bed this morning, and it was a wonderfull read. The scene with Blacksky giving out gifts definately influenced my dreams however, although for me the character was male, and a really old vampire instead a succubus. Very similar in character though. It was quite intersting in fact.
Moving on to the story itself, I really liked this chapter. Kasumi's tease, whatever her intent was a surprise, but interesting none the less. I can't help wondering what she's going to feel about missing out on Blacksky.
The maturation of Ranma's brood, and their interactions with each other was fun to watch.
Nodoka had quite some interesting developments in this chapter, and I can't help but wonder what she'd be able to do with the metal Blacksky has given her. I imagine that it's going to raise a few eyebrows, as well as objections from within the Company. It would be rather boring it they stopped her from making something for Ranma however.
I really like Blacksky. As others have said she is an easily abused character as far as power levels are concerned, but I have more faith in your writing ability than than. It's quite interesting that the gifts she gave are all primarily geared toward learning, in one way or another.
I don't really like the characterization of Genma, in too many fics he so one dimensional. Granted he is an idiot, but not completely irredeemable. However that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Thank you very much for a good read.

[Sunshine Temple]

A quick note to the impatient, it takes a LOT of time to just write out something this long, let alone edit for grammar/spelling/continuity etc. Be gratefull that this story is being made available at all, I am.

Thank you. Though the quality is owed to my prereaders. They wadded through this thing as I wrote it. Thank them.

Moving on them....
I finished reading this just before I went to bed this morning, and it was a wonderfull read. The scene with Blacksky giving out gifts definately influenced my dreams however, although for me the character was male, and a really old vampire instead a succubus. Very similar in character though. It was quite intersting in fact.

More of a grandfather then?

Moving on to the story itself, I really liked this chapter. Kasumi's tease, whatever her intent was a surprise, but interesting none the less. I can't help wondering what she's going to feel about missing out on Blacksky.
The maturation of Ranma's brood, and their interactions with each other was fun to watch.

Thank you ^_^
Nodoka had quite some interesting developments in this chapter, and I can't help but wonder what she'd be able to do with the metal Blacksky has given her. I imagine that it's going to raise a few eyebrows, as well as objections from within the Company. It would be rather boring it they stopped her from making something for Ranma however.
[/quote]
Oh, you think it's for Ranma? heh

I really like Blacksky. As others have said she is an easily abused character as far as power levels are concerned, but I have more faith in your writing ability than than. It's quite interesting that the gifts she gave are all primarily geared toward learning, in one way or another.

Thank you ^_^

I don't really like the characterization of Genma, in too many fics he so one dimensional. Granted he is an idiot, but not completely irredeemable. However that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Thank you very much for a good read.

Thank you for reading and commenting

[MindPron]

I just reread the passages on the conversion of the Roman Legion, and I believe I can tell you a bit more about Roman engineering and statecraft.
To put it quite simply there was never such a thing as Roman engineering, whatever construction styles they used they stole from the Greeks, or the Etruscans, of which the latter did the same as the Romans did.
The Romans also were never great thinkers in any form of the word, philosophy and knowledge growth pretty much stagnated or recessed across the board once the Mediterranean learning centers were conquered. That's not to say there wasn't any progress, but it was rather slow.
That said however, Romans knew how to outfit and organise an army, though their tactics were essentially crap.
But back on the outfitting and organising: If it could be standardised it was standardised, including the plans for the army camps, wether a legionary was stationed in the far reaches of Britain or Egypt didn't matter, he'd find his way.
Romans also knew how to count, and there are records that they send people on at the time very time consuming tasks like mapping out how much hectares the Iberic Peninsula now exactly is. That, combined with the understanding that a large empire needs a large network of welkept roads and that cities need excellent supplies of fresh water and quick and efficient disposal of waste are Rome's greatest gifts to Man.

Actually, the Romans were VERY good engineers. They created things that we couldn't duplicate NOW, even with today's computer modeling and construction equipment. Yes, they took a lot of their knowledge from the Med. area, but so what? They applied and expanded on those concepts in a major way, and create several concepts of their own. Hell, we still use a lot of the engineering concepts that were created by Rome.
It wasn't until the breaking of Rome into two seperate empires that they started to stagnate, and that was because they had started being lazy and using more of the barbarian tribes as contractors instead of their own. Basically they got decadant and lost their work ethic. But before that they created some amazing, and durable, artifices.
As for tactics, The Romans were VERY good at it. The idea that they weren't is ludicrous. You don't conquer an empire the size of Rome without being skilled at war. The modified Phalanx used by the Romans has been described as a moving thresher. And they adapted it many times to deal with threats to the Empire.
Stategically; they invented half of the classic strategies used in warfare to this day. Sun Tzu may have made strategy an art, but the Romans made it a science.
But, more importantly, the Romans were logistical geniuses. The reason the Romans are so famous, and feared, for their military might was because they created untold numbers of logistical concepts to help them move troops and supplies around quickly. Rome scared the shit out of its neighbors because they could attack and counterattack so damn fast.
Their backside in military might was due to over-outsourcing military tasks to mercenary groups rather than handling them themselves. Diocletian began hiring local tribes and independant mercenaries to handle securing their borders. These group didn't have the intense disipline that the former Roman Legions did, so would often flee from battle, collapse under pressure, and a slew of other mistakes that the Legion wouldn't have. That is what lead to the downfall of Rome.
Rome fell because it got lazy and collapsed under the weight of its own corruption. But, to say that fresh water and waste disposal are their only contributions is to ignore history. The invented the first truly organized army, created enginering concepts that we are still rediscovering, wrote the book on western military strategy, created the first organized and thorough bureaucrasy, and changed the entire course of European history. Read a history book, they aren't called the Great Empire for nothing.

[crystlshake]

Northbound flight

not sure if the flight dirrection would have capitalization

After sixteen months of constant, daily use her sidearm had become an extension of her body.

constant daily use, her ?

The others on the plane had to wonder why a someone like her was on this flight.

why a noone/nobody or why someone

He wondered what cover story the media would be told would.

would be told.

They be billed as Emergency Task Force TPS's version of SWAT or maybe they would be told it was a federal issue.

They could be billed ?

"She even wanted to go, was proud of it."

go, I was proud of it.

"You also helped abduct two of my daughters and several plots to steal the rest."

and aid in several plots ?

I imagine you did a some work to setup this meeting,"

you did some work
I liked the scene with the Drake in the bar. Its pretty unique for him to still be the best portrayed father of the three. The transition between this scene and the one with Ranma wondering about them was also realy smooth.
It's nice to get a bit of an update on the Outers overseas. For such a small scene it raises a lot of questions. Educational too. I like it. It gives me the vibe that little Hotaru and the Spore are going to be running things on that front.
The racial background for the succubi was really informative. The humanizing elements about some of the normal day to day elements of their society 'back home' injects a solid base that can be looked at similar to how one would the background of one of the normal or more esoteric Earth human cultures. It works as a great functional background to the 'questioning the definition of humanity' and 'nature of good and evil' that are interjected throughout the story (both here and in previous chapters). Probably one of the elements that I find most alluring about this story. Kinda a Ghost in the Shell kind of existential vibe. Good stuff.
The desire for a name change for Aurora is great symbolism for her character development. For some reason it also has me thinking it has an element of greater familial bonding to it as well.
The conversation over dinner was well done. I was really curious about what they were going to serve considering their coming company. I didnt even consider fish....
The detail that went into the gifts was welcome. Aside from the cultural and emotional insights they gave, most authors would go with a simple description akin to handing out a homework asighnment. Its nice to see detail on things that arn't necesarilly going to become possible future plot pieces.
The suggestive undertone with Ami and Janice is great too. Just because something they want to do is impossible with her mom there doesnt mean its intimate in nature. Senshi business has to be kept secret too after all. The others might just be reading too much into the situation or just be a little jealous of the time she's been spending with someone apart from their clique. Like Usagi spending time with Ranma. Paranoia
Despite the untimely demise of the new cult, I suspect that even if its the last we see of any members that the book and the effect of their terrorism (the crescent moon symbology especially) will have some longer reaching effects.
Can't wait for the next chapter. I'll be looking forward to seeing Blacksky in the future. Even if she stays out of most of the escalating conflict. The little touches of 'hominess' really make the characters shine.

[Sunshine Temple]

MindPron
Actually, the Romans were VERY good engineers. They created things that we couldn't duplicate NOW, even with today's computer modeling and construction equipment. Yes, they took a lot of their knowledge from the Med. area, but so what? They applied and expanded on those concepts in a major way, and create several concepts of their own. Hell, we still use a lot of the engineering concepts that were created by Rome.
[Yes, they got the information from someone else, but they used it greatly
[Everyone does that. Including BlaackSky.
<snip>

Rome fell because it got lazy and collapsed under the weight of its own corruption. But, to say that fresh water and waste disposal are their only contributions is to ignore history. The invented the first truly organized army, created enginering concepts that we are still rediscovering, wrote the book on western military strategy, created the first organized and thorough bureaucrasy, and changed the entire course of European history. Read a history book, they aren't called the Great Empire for nothing.
[Quite right. And many reasons for BlackSky to not mind integrating several thousand of them into her family. They did have much to offer.
[Now Roman arguments should be truncated. This is getting off the topic.
[Hazard, you should really stop obsessing over this thing.
crystlshake
Quote:
Northbound flight
not sure if the flight dirrection would have capitalization
[I think it should
Quote:
After sixteen months of constant, daily use her sidearm had become an extension of her body.
constant daily use, her ?
[nope constant and daily are both modifying use.
[I put in the other changes as suggested. Will reupload later
I liked the scene with the Drake in the bar. Its pretty unique for him to still be the best portrayed father of the three. The transition between this scene and the one with Ranma wondering about them was also realy smooth.
[glad to hear that.
It's nice to get a bit of an update on the Outers overseas. For such a small scene it raises a lot of questions. Educational too. I like it. It gives me the vibe that little Hotaru and the Spore are going to be running things on that front.
[very good. That scene worked out well then
[their perspective does raise questions.
The racial background for the succubi was really informative. The humanizing elements about some of the normal day to day elements of their society 'back home' injects a solid base that can be looked at similar to how one would the background of one of the normal or more esoteric Earth human cultures. It works as a great functional background to the 'questioning the definition of humanity' and 'nature of good and evil' that are interjected throughout the story (both here and in previous chapters). Probably one of the elements that I find most alluring about this story. Kinda a Ghost in the Shell kind of existential vibe. Good stuff.
[Excellent. Succubae are interesting. They're clearly not human, and in some ways are vastly different, but in others they are alike.
[Heh... comparison to Ghost. I like. I also like you commenting on some of the themes here.
[There's also the morality issues with BlackSky. She has no qualms about what she is, and she has done things.
The desire for a name change for Aurora is great symbolism for her character development. For some reason it also has me thinking it has an element of greater familial bonding to it as well.
[Indeed. There's also the art that Misako and her mother are bonding over.
The conversation over dinner was well done. I was really curious about what they were going to serve considering their coming company. I didnt even consider fish....
[Thanks
[Nodoka did think this one over. Something that showcased her culture but would also appeal to a succubae's taste.
The detail that went into the gifts was welcome. Aside from the cultural and emotional insights they gave, most authors would go with a simple description akin to handing out a homework asighnment. Its nice to see detail on things that arn't necesarilly going to become possible future plot pieces.
[Yeah, details are everything.
[Yup, the artifacts of a culture to reveal much about them.
The suggestive undertone with Ami and Janice is great too. Just because something they want to do is impossible with her mom there doesnt mean its intimate in nature. Senshi business has to be kept secret too after all. The others might just be reading too much into the situation or just be a little jealous of the time she's been spending with someone apart from their clique. Like Usagi spending time with Ranma. Paranoia
[Yup. Paranoia is quite fun.
Despite the untimely demise of the new cult, I suspect that even if its the last we see of any members that the book and the effect of their terrorism (the crescent moon symbology especially) will have some longer reaching effects.
[Yah, there are already some prominent effects to what they did.
Can't wait for the next chapter. I'll be looking forward to seeing Blacksky in the future. Even if she stays out of most of the escalating conflict. The little touches of 'hominess' really make the characters shine.
[Thanks for noticing that stuff.
[I try to focus on the characters. As they are the core to any story.
[And thank you for reviewing. It's always a pleasure.

[migele]

most stuff has already been said but a few things I deen importand.
You feature Rei as an critic, but in the in between she is always rasther negative, you should expand a little on her I think.
Ranma: She is entirely too positive this whole chapter. Not much guessing back, while good when talking to Usagi there are some things missing. A little more of that demon/former human duality would be nice. maybe a little comparing.
And you should mention the final result of the colour shifting.
Brood: The brood is nice, I liked the dynamic with choosing names and such. Aurora changing hers, Ukyo reamining who she was, Nabiki (still my favourite) choosing hers. good stuff. The Nariko Kofdachi moments were perfect. A little more on Genma and soun vs. Drake would be fun too.
Nodoka. She is coming along nicely, I like her support and she truly accepted her role.
The guys, I kinda missed them except for the one entry with Dachi, they are really a nice bunch and almost part of the family.
Kasumi: Comes along nicely! I'm still debating if I can write the Ranma temptress scene without going above pg-13 ... nah.
Granny: I think it's obvious, She reminds me of a Cologne v15.4.2. While helpful, honest, wise and giving space. Everything a mother/granny should be.
The aftermath of the family recreation: handled well but a little to positive on all accounts, no need to go dark but a few more questions from most of them and such would be good. Secenes that show that returning to a life with humans isn't that easy for some of them.
------
All in all it works the way I expected it. we got some more light shed on some things. USagi breaking down was a surpise but works well. It would be nice seeing Setsuna facing off with Ranma again.
I expected more on the Ranma/Kasumi front, but this time it's a very small time frame so that works fine.
Ukyo as a demonic agent was a good twist, I expected something like that, maybe that one of the guys drops a comment like "You work with us really well, why not really join?"
Well I'm low on time, I'll reread it later and maybe tell more but now I got to go.

[Atlan]

Just a small note: Congratulations on restraint on choosing Ryoga's new name. A lot of people (including me) would have been lazey, and just used Ryoko.

[PSJD]

"What the hell am I supposed to do then?" Usagi clenched her hand over the soap. "So, it's okay for to kill humans now? I'm not like you...

me after for

Ranma sighed and slide next to Usagi and started washing her hair.

shouldn't that be slid

The redhead extended one of her wings and using a limb that was strong enough to lift her body off the ground hit Aurora.

to after ground.

Aurora caught her with a tail and her remaining arm. Ranma had responded in kind.

That sounds as if they have more than one tail each.
Maybe: Aurora caught her with her tail and remaining arm.

Hotaru looked up her work and beamed happily. "Yup!" she said before going back to her work.

from after up

"That affliction saved the lives and souls of one of my daughter's and two of Soun's, not to mention all the others she has saved.

daughters

Despite the surprise her, the corners of her lips turned upward.

drop the first her

The demon queen that made it designed it for out kind to use and channel it," BlackSky explained.

our insted of out

[DCG]

Errr, better head this off before it gets out of hand.
Now i know sunny said good C&C gets people a prereader spot.
But really,
Sunny meant c&c about ideas, plots, the red herrings in it, Conspiracies and all that junk, Interaction between the family and every one else.
If you just pointing out thing that are not really mistakes to begin with, you’re headed down the wrong road.

[Sunshine Temple]

migele
most stuff has already been said but a few things I deen importand.
You feature Rei as an critic, but in the in between she is always rasther negative, you should expand a little on her I think.
[Don't worry. I have plans for her that are more positive
Ranma: She is entirely too positive this whole chapter. Not much guessing back, while good when talking to Usagi there are some things missing. A little more of that demon/former human duality would be nice. maybe a little comparing.
[True, though that duality will become more muted with time.
And you should mention the final result of the colour shifting.
[I believe I did in ch13
Brood: The brood is nice, I liked the dynamic with choosing names and such. Aurora changing hers, Ukyo reamining who she was, Nabiki (still my favourite) choosing hers. good stuff. The Nariko Kofdachi moments were perfect.
[Very good, Did want a good sibling interaction with them, and evolution of them
A little more on Genma and soun vs. Drake would be fun too.
[Yeah, though there are length limits. Not sure I'd want the chapter any longer than it is.
Nodoka. She is coming along nicely, I like her support and she truly accepted her role.
[Good... good *smiles evilly*
The guys, I kinda missed them except for the one entry with Dachi, they are really a nice bunch and almost part of the family.
[The agents? Cool that you see them as family
Kasumi: Comes along nicely! I'm still debating if I can write the Ranma temptress scene without going above pg-13 ... nah.
[R would be fine ;p
Granny: I think it's obvious, She reminds me of a Cologne v15.4.2. While helpful, honest, wise and giving space. Everything a mother/granny should be.
[Oh she's head and shoulders above Cologne.
The aftermath of the family recreation: handled well but a little to positive on all accounts, no need to go dark but a few more questions from most of them and such would be good. Secenes that show that returning to a life with humans isn't that easy for some of them.
[the aftermath? The chapter ended immediately after BlackSky left.
------
All in all it works the way I expected it. we got some more light shed on some things. USagi breaking down was a surpise but works well. It would be nice seeing Setsuna facing off with Ranma again.
[yes it would
[Usagi should have broken down given what she did.
I expected more on the Ranma/Kasumi front, but this time it's a very small time frame so that works fine.
Ukyo as a demonic agent was a good twist, I expected something like that, maybe that one of the guys drops a comment like "You work with us really well, why not really join?"
[Ukyou had an interest of joining when she first defected to WIC, back when she was still human
Well I'm low on time, I'll reread it later and maybe tell more but now I got to go.
[cool. Thanks for commenting
Atlan
Just a small note: Congratulations on restraint on choosing Ryoga's new name. A lot of people (including me) would have been lazey, and just used Ryoko.
[Nah, names are important.
[Thanks though
PSJD
Thanks for the corrections. Added them to the chapter. Makes those lines actually correct.
Thank you