Villains of Competence

[FOG3]

No. I meant that, in the original MS Gundam series, Char's goal in life was to destroy the Zabi family for killing his father (he joined Zeon's military as a way to get close to them) and, with the exception of one or two who were killed by some one else, he succeeded in doing just that.

Yes, but I was referring to:

Char Aznable of Mobile Suit Gundam. In the original series he succeeded at his original goal of killing the entire Zabi family. If it wasn't for his desire to defeat Amuro in single combat (on a relatively even footing) he would have won in the end of the Char's Counter attack.

I thought mentioning the Re-GZ, which Amuro was piloting at the start of CCA, before he picked up the Nu would make it obvious I was referring to the CCA related portion. As Char points out Amuro didn't really have a chance in the Re-GZ.

The Nu Gundam was developed from Psycho Frame technology, which was developed by Zeon and then deliberately leaked so that Lond Bell could use it in a mobile suit for Amuro.

That is incorrect. The Nu Gundam did not in its initial design have the refined Psycho Frame tech but a more conventional psycommu system, Amuro has a minor argument with the Anaheim tech about them changing that on him when he goes to pick it up. It wasn't developed from the refined tech, Anaheim, which was selling suits to the Zeons and had been basically instructed to use the tech on Amuro's suit modified the design and added it between the initial design phase and actual manufacture phase, which all happened before the start of the movie.
Of course, the really stupid part was that they emphasized Amuro's assistant with her little chunk of the material acting in stopping the Asteroid when by all rights she appeared to be a minimal New Type at best.

[lwf58]

Point taken. Yes, the Psycho Frame was a revision to the original design of the Nu Gundam.
Putting on my moderator hat now: Remember that the topic of this thread is discussion of competent villains, so be careful not to drop into arguments over the relative merits of mobile suits. Your last post didn't talk about Char's career as a villain at all. That is the point of the conversation, rather than the technical history of Amuro Rei's combat mecha.
To anyone else who replies, the same caution applies.

[camk4evr]

I thought mentioning the Re-GZ, which Amuro was piloting at the start of CCA, before he picked up the Nu would make it obvious I was referring to the CCA related portion. As Char points out Amuro didn't really have a chance in the Re-GZ.

Sorry, I was concentrating on the first part of my statement. However, as I mentioned Char wanted a fight with Amuro with the two on a even (or relatively even) footing which was why he didn't kill Amuro when he was using the Re-GZ and why he deliberately leaky the Psycommu Frame that was used in Amuro's Nu Gundam. Mind you, I probably should have said "
by the end of Char's Counterattack" in my original post
BTW it was Larry, not me, who said that the Nu Gundam was developed by Psycho frame tech.

[Fellow Sufferer]

Griffith from Berserk. By being brilliant strategist on and off the battlefield, he went all the way up to the General - highest position in Midland's chain of command - and made just one mistake (admittingly, stupid one, and one that almost nulified all his previous accomplicments). But in the end - he was reborn as Femto, and, I believe, got what he wanted - ultimate power.

[Seraphim]

Azula from Avatar. Not an actual anime, I know, but anime-like.
Even if she is 110% sociopathic %£&%*.

[camk4evr]

Ashram of Record of Lodoss War (manga and Chronicles of the Heroic Knight version as opposed to OVA version). He probably could have conquered Lodoss if he really wanted to instead of deciding to take his followers and leaving Lodoss.
Also from Lodoss War, Karla. She spent thousands of years keeping the various nations of Lodoss at war each other.

[Kura]

Griffith I agree is one of the most competent villains of all time. He sacrificed his loyal army to be reborn as a demon (God Hand I think it was called) and he basically was able to fool thousands into joining his cause yet again after his rebirth.
Indalecio with his limiters off I could not beat till this day...but damn he was a conniving villain, using another planet to collide it with Nede...
I like Krelian as a villain in Xenogears, as he developed as a hero from the previous ages into the villain who basically ruled the empire he fought against.

[Himitsu The Hunter]

First i would say Naraku from Inuyasha, why? Because he is essentially a creature who conned his way to the top of the food chain, craving life, power and too an extent love/lust (and conversely an annihilation of said love/love). From the time he was human he would con any and everyone around him into giving exactly what he wanted, and even in the almost fatal back firing of of one of his schemes he was able to find a dark rebirth (By inviting a massive host of beings to posse and become him). On a consistent basis he has proven a thorn in the side of every one and everything no matter how powerful it is in comparison to himself, and constantly plots and plants the seeds of his rise in power... and the downfall of any that would prevent his goals. And even when caught unaware, he ALWAYS has a back up plan... or is able to take advantage of even a slight opening to find his way to freedom. A good example of his crafty nature is shown in his battle with the baby he created to hold his human heart (who in turn creates an 'organic' battle armour. in the form of a humanoid creature) and allows himself to 'loose' and be eaten by his offspring in order to take it over from inside.
My other nomination would be Katsuhito Jenai in the first El Hazard OVA. He is a Proper antagonist and villain for the story, and despite his predisposition to foolish antics his competence can truly be seen in the OVA as he is able to give the Bugrom the military leadership they needed in order to severely encroach on Rosharia and the surrounding kingdoms with no way to stop them without resorting to the Eye of God. Also it can be seen in his statement and contribution to saving the world he'd come to reside on in the end, when he stated that he had saved Makoto only because he needed the world to be There for him to take it over. Jenai is far more competent than give credit for usually. (Sides, with a laugh like that one just cant go wrong in the halls of Villainy)
And finally i nominate the Ruins Buster Kagato. A cool dispassionate person who literally discarded the greater bulk of his emotional self in the pursuit of great power, would make whole planets quake in fear of himself or his minion Ryoko.
In the end of his fight in Tenchi Muyo he only defeated due to the freakish amounts of power which Tenchi could exhibit while using the Light Hawk Wings. Also Kagato had the single coolest dieing lines of any villain I've ever heard (Not for what they were but for the exact manner in which they were delivered and the emotional impact of his mannerism while he was obviously in the last stages of his destruction).
"You've won Boy,"
-Himitsu the Hunter (Not that other Himitsu guy )

[lwf58]

Gotta agree with Katsuhiko Jinnai as a great villain. He's an example of a normal human who through sheer talent proved to be the boss the bad guys needed. His failings are many, but his strengths are unquestionable. When he traveled to El Hazard, the only superhuman power he gained was the ability to understand the Bugrom, and have them understand him, even though he couldn't speak their language. Everything else he accomplished was on his own merits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_El ... iko_Jinnai

[Hazard]

Kerrigan, Queen of Blades from Starcraft: Brood War, from the very start of the campaign she manages to have everyone else dance to her tune. After they prove no longer necessary, she betrays and destroys them so she's pretty much

The Queen Bitch of the Sector

[Metroidvania]

Kerrigan, Queen of Blades from Starcraft: Brood War, from the very start of the campaign she manages to have everyone else dance to her tune.

Just playing that, coincidentally, and I was just thinking the same thing...
She's quite the villan, especially when, at the end of canon, she effectively establishes her reign after crushing the opposition.

[Alathon]

I think we're setting our bars for 'successful' villains awfully low. How can you be sucessful, when you've failed.. even if it's due to some tragic flaw, or oversight, or random chance.. or whatever. You've still failed. They may still be great characters, cool, and totally fuckable, but they're still failures.
There are villains out there who have actually, you know, succeeded. Like Xelloss for example.. in Slayers NEXT and Slayers TRY both, he got what he wanted.. not without a bumpy ride, and not without a few failed gambits, but ultimately his major goals were achieved. Not to mention he lived through both seasons, something a lot of the mentioned villains couldn't quite manage.
Karla from the original Record of Lodoss War is another good example. SHe didn't get everything exactly the way she wanted it, but she accomplished most of what she wanted, and succeeded in her primary goal: preventing Lodoss from being dominated by any one ruler. She was also living (after her fashion) at the end of the series.

[Knight of L-sama]

There are villains out there who have actually, you know, succeeded. Like Xelloss for example.. in Slayers NEXT and Slayers TRY both, he got what he wanted.. not without a bumpy ride, and not without a few failed gambits, but ultimately his major goals were achieved. Not to mention he lived through both seasons, something a lot of the mentioned villains couldn't quite manage.

I wouldn't classify Xelloss as a Villian of Competence for one simple reason. He's not doing it of his own volition but on behalf of Greater Beast Xelas. He gets full marks as a Subordinate of Competence but if anyone deserved the Vilain of Competence it's Xelas herself. Especially considering that she doesn't act directly herself. (And from the point of view of Lina et al categorising her as a villain is hard since their ultimate goals intersect more often than not).

[Pale Wolf]

Well... Having watched Demonbane, I've now got two new additions for this list.
There's Therion, who was so badass his own death was just part of the plan - heck, he had the people who betrayed and killed him doing all the work for everything up to near the end.
And then, Nyarlathotep, who managed to, completely short of notice, manipulate him over apparently thousands of recursions and rebirths, manipulate Yog freaking Sothoth, Cthulhu, and a thousand other factors just to set up the situation where Kurou and Therion would use the weapons she wanted on each other. And her plans only fell apart in the last... five minutes. That counting the time it took for everyone to even realize she was there.

[lwf58]

I think we're setting our bars for 'successful' villains awfully low. How can you be sucessful, when you've failed.. even if it's due to some tragic flaw, or oversight, or random chance.. or whatever. You've still failed.

The one I seconded, Jinnai, didn't fail. He was spectacularly successful at conquering the world until they unleashed a weapon on his troops that was El Hazard's answer to thermonukes. Even then, he still didn't lose, because he and a core group of his followers survived, got away, and were plotting a comeback in the final closing credits of the OAV.
I like him as a villain because he doesn't need to be superhuman to be a great bad guy. He does it on sheer chutzpah.
"Victory and conquest, that's my kind of mission!"
--Katsuhiko Jinnai