Sailor Saturn in all her forms

[Zwzn]

It might just be I have a really strange DVD, but Moon was using pink energy to try to heal NQS and a few other times in season 2. The energy is not silver/white again until Moon drains the inners without seeming to realize it just before facing Death Phantom. We don't see pink energy again until season 3 when the silver crystal stops working when Usagi's second broach is damaged, and it transforms into the broach Usagi used in the rest of season 3. The silver crystal was in the broach when it transformed.

You can't always trust the animators in S.M. for aura/attack colours they're very fickle that way.

It seems fairly consistent to me. The only time the rule seems to be broken is Wiseman, but his blast that killed Diamons's brother also had black in it.

It was shown to be purple energy that woke and healed every thing in the AV presentation the inners where shown by the Neo king, and it seems the the Earth freezing was the problem.

The quote was from Diamond, and was suported by things Pluto said to the inners after the cup was summoned in season 3. I didn't make it up. Usagi governs as queen and gets worshiped as a goddess it seems in Crystal Tokyo.

Saturn is shown to use silver, gold, and purple energy for the record.

Zwzn, I've looked at that scene several times, and even got outside opinions. That energy was distinctly pink.

Future Mars's power looked magenta to me in season 2. Everyone sees color differently. I still say the motes of light in the AV looked more purple then pink.

Nine would have been the first daemon made most like to "save" Hotaru's life. I'm not real sure Hotaru was really all that hurt at the time.

Nine seemed to grow stronger the less Hotaru wanted to live. That is why Nine beat people who might be friends with Hotaru and killed things, and why Chibi-Usa's HC was so important.

Nine is the only thing we see eat heart crystals. I think Hotaru was fighting off Nine like a cold.

So Hotaru didn't get very hurt in midst of a lab explosion?

What I ment was all we see in the flash back is a we see no big nasty cuts, obviously broken bones, or that sort of thing one would expect someone who was the closest to a blast to have. All We can see is some burns, scrapes, and that she is not conscious. Her father never checks her pulse and such things, and is in a paniced state of mind.

Hotaru's father seems to only have some minor cuts, burns, and his closes are a little ripped, and he was just a few feet way from Hotaru.

It is interesting that the only people we see in the lab after the blast are Hotaru and her father. The creature that appeared may have made a point not to kill them.

Hotaru could have been dieing or dead, but it looks just as likely to me she was just Knocked out, and had minor scrapes and burns.

Energy was taken without the inners giving aproval at the end of season 2, Saturn was in a life and death fight and the at the end of season 3, and it is debateable if the inners gave freely at the end of season 3. Each time Moon transforms after a certain point in season 2 Moon is using the other senshi's power without asking. Moon also never seems to realize where the power actually comes from for the gold and silver crystal nor the power source of the grail until Nine tells(I mean the cup. Not Hotaru's HC) in the anime.

:?:

Moon never seemed to me to pick up on the fact the silver and Gold gather energy from people, and Moon seemed suprised the grail(the cup) got it's power from a Ultra Pure Heart Crystal, and was also suprised when broke and appeared to have been empty.

I would like to explain what I meant, but is kind of vague.

[Comartemis]

What I ment was all we see in the flash back is a we see no big nasty cuts, obviously broken bones, or that sort of thing one would expect someone who was the closest to a blast to have.

What, so you're expecting to see blood and gore and "obviously broken bones" in a kids show? Think of what the parents would say!

[Zwzn]

What I ment was all we see in the flash back is a we see no big nasty cuts, obviously broken bones, or that sort of thing one would expect someone who was the closest to a blast to have.

What, so you're expecting to see blood and gore and "obviously broken bones" in a kids show? Think of what the parents would say!

I don't know something like a pool of blood under Hotaru or something to make it clear how badly Hotaru was actually hurt. The other people in the lab seemed to get worse then the Tomoes. They where almost at ground zero for the blast, and they just had minor looking burns, scrapes, and cuts. People behind and next to them them where getting vaporized.

As it stands it seems to me Nine was Hotaru's chronic health problem, and not something from the accident.

[Zwzn]

Natural powers
Hotaru differs from most other Senshi (Mars and Neptune being obvious exceptions), in that she has several powers outside of her Senshi form. Some of these powers may be attributed to the influence of Mistress 9 possessing her body. However, many are manifested after Mistress 9 has been destroyed, or while the Saturn symbol shines on Hotaru's forehead (indicating that the power is her own).

• Energy barrier — At various times in the anime, Hotaru is protected from harm by a barrier of energy. This barrier severely damages the enemy. This barrier appears to be involuntary.

• Energy beams — At various times in Sailor Moon S, Hotaru uses her power to damage or paralyze enemies.

• Healing — In both the anime and manga, Hotaru has the ability to heal wounds. This power was never explored in-depth, and the wounds being healed were always shown to be fairly minor.

• Rebirth — It appears that Hotaru has the ability to be reborn when defeated. It is unknown as to what the extent of this power is. In conjunction with her rebirth, Hotaru also ages rapidly when needed. In both the anime and manga, she is shown to reach her former age in a matter of days.

• Power-ups — In both the manga and anime, Hotaru is the one to power up the Outer Senshi into their 'super' forms.

• Visions and projections — Hotaru often has visions of upcoming events. She also has the ability to project visions to others. She does this several times in the Dream arc of the manga and in the Sailor Stars anime. In the manga, notable occurrences involve showing a defeated Pegasus in Dream and projections of the Universe of which Hotaru watches over and uses it to destroy or bring planets to life. While she was reaching former age in Dream arc, Haruka did it with her as Michiru referred to it as gardening with Hotaru.

Over the weekend I googled Hotaru Tomoe, and came across this on http://www.answers.com/topic/hotaru-tomoe. Every ability I can at least understand how they came up with, but the part I put in bold. I was wondering if someone with the manga could comfirm or deny if that is true. If it is true then why are Moon and Galaxia consided more powerful then Saturn.

[camk4evr]

http://www.answers.com/topic/hotaru-tomoe. Every ability I can at least understand how they came up with, but the part I put in bold. I was wondering if someone with the manga could comfirm or deny if that is true. If it is true then why are Moon and Galaxia consided more powerful then Saturn.

I don't remember it to be honest (mind you, I have the Mixx translation which is not considered to be the best), as it's been awhile since I've read it.

As to why Galaxia and Moon are considered more powerful is because (assuming I remember the manga correctly) Galaxia was said to be the strongest senshi as she was able to contain Chaos within herself (who then corrupted her) while Sailor Moon was the prophesied 'Ultimate' Senshi (when she becomes Sailor Cosmos sometime after the manga ends) who has the strongest star seed/sailor crystal/whatever.

[Zwzn]

Thank you camk4evr.

http://www.answers.com/topic/hotaru-tomoe. Every ability I can at least understand how they came up with, but the part I put in bold. I was wondering if someone with the manga could comfirm or deny if that is true. If it is true then why are Moon and Galaxia consided more powerful then Saturn.

I don't remember it to be honest (mind you, I have the Mixx translation which is not considered to be the best), as it's been awhile since I've read it.

Could you or someone that has the manga in some form look into it? I don't have it becuase when it was in print where I live I had no income. I read it in book stores, and my public library. I can't find it anywhere anymore.

As to why Galaxia and Moon are considered more powerful is because (assuming I remember the manga correctly) Galaxia was said to be the strongest senshi as she was able to contain Chaos within herself (who then corrupted her) while Sailor Moon was the prophesied 'Ultimate' Senshi (when she becomes Sailor Cosmos sometime after the manga ends) who has the strongest star seed/sailor crystal/whatever.

My thinking was if the page I found was correct then it was Saying Hotaru in the manga could just will things to life or death from her room. This seems far more powerful then actually having to be where your power is taking effect like I recall Moon and Galaxia in the manga.

Do you know who said Galaxia was the most powerful senshi? Sealing an enemy you are loosing to inside yourself seems more a sign of foolishness then a sign of great power to me. Eternal Moon was at least about the same power level as Galaxia as I recall, and I don't recall Galaxia ever fighting Saturn.

Isn't Saturn also called at one point the most powerful of all senshi at one point in the manga?

I came across this theory about Sailor Cosmos some time ago: http://p200.ezboard.com/My-Crazy-Sailor-Cosmos-Theories-XX/flunaticpartyfrm1.showMessage?topicID=90.topic

[Seraphim]

Could you or someone that has the manga in some form look into it? I don't have it becuase when it was in print where I live I had no income. I read it in book stores, and my public library. I can't find it anywhere anymore.

My thinking was if the page I found was correct then it was Saying Hotaru in the manga could just will things to life or death from her room. This seems far more powerful then actually having to be where your power is taking effect like I recall Moon and Galaxia in the manga.

I've checked out my Mixx translated manga, and the translation by Alex Glover (which is more reliable), and they don't mention the thing that you bolded, it was only a projection of the Solar System and was refered to it as a game, I think someone else mistranlated these lines.

"Some small lights are shining."

"These? Asteroids. They aren't concerned with my will, the new planets. I'm at a loss as to whether they're supposed to live or die. This white light is the moon. It's like a pretty pearl."

And the led to people she used it to 'remote destroy' things.

Do you know who said Galaxia was the most powerful senshi? Sealing an enemy you are loosing to inside yourself seems more a sign of foolishness then a sign of great power to me. Eternal Moon was at least about the same power level as Galaxia as I recall, and I don't recall Galaxia ever fighting Saturn.

In the anime I believe Saturn and Galaxia fought and that lead to the Silence Glaive being broken. Mind I've not seen that ep so I could've mixed that point up with something else.

The sealing Chaos inside herself only happened in the anime, y'know. Kakyuu described Galaxia as the 'Senshi of True Destruction', and Kakyuu and Galaxia both called Usagi the holder of the most powerful Sailor Crystal in the universe, and when she (Usagi) tranformed into her NeoQueen form for the first time in the battle with Nehelennia, her power was felt all over the galaxy.

"You took the Prince's hand, and you showed the shining of this planet's next king and queen. In that moment, the power of this planet's light, filled with the power of life, crossed time and space and spread throughout the entire galaxy. That was a message from this solar system stronger, brighter, and warmer than ever before. I have wanted to meet you for so very long."

And then Usagi right at the end channelled the power of the Cauldron and hundreds (if not thousands, probably more) Sailor Crystals along with her own power through her body to dissvolve Chaos and clense the Cauldron, I don't think even Galaxia could do that.

Isn't Saturn also called at one point the most powerful of all senshi at one point in the manga?

I came across this theory about Sailor Cosmos some time ago: http://p200.ezboard.com/My-Crazy-Sailor-Cosmos-Theories-XX/flunaticpartyfrm1.showMessage?topicID=90.topic

Could be, but I sort of doubt it.

[camk4evr]

Could you or someone that has the manga in some form look into it? I don't have it becuase when it was in print where I live I had no income. I read it in book stores, and my public library. I can't find it anywhere anymore.

If I can find it. I'm not sure where I put Stars after I boxed up most of my books.

The Oracle or wikimoon.org might be a helpfull sites for you to check out

The sealing Chaos inside herself only happened in the anime, y'know. Kakyuu described Galaxia as the 'Senshi of True Destruction', and Kakyuu and Galaxia both called Usagi the holder of the most powerful Sailor Crystal in the universe, and when she (Usagi) tranformed into her NeoQueen form for the first time in the battle with Nehelennia, her power was felt all over the galaxy.

Thanks Seraphim. Somehow I mixed up the manga and anime there (not sure how since I haven't seen the Stars anime yet, damn internet^_^)

[Seraphim]

Thanks Seraphim. Somehow I mixed up the manga and anime there (not sure how since I haven't seen the Stars anime yet, damn internet^_^)

Everything other than Galaxia/Chaos in that quote was manga, I should've been more clear, sorry.

[Zwzn]

In the anime I believe Saturn and Galaxia fought and that lead to the Silence Glaive being broken. Mind I've not seen that ep so I could've mixed that point up with something else.

Galaxia's attack goes right through the glaive, hits Saturn, and knocks her over. Saturn did not put up any kind of defence. Then Saturn just gets back up unharmed like she did when Super queen Nefy hit Saturn with the black "lighting". As I recall Saturn was still going to fight to the death even after her glaive's was broken.

The attack looked to me like Khaos/Galaxia's Star seed stealing blast, and did not look as if it was weakened in any way by going through the shaft of the glaive to me.

I don't recall Saturn using any attack more powerful then Silence Glaive if any. This means Saturn did not really attack because Silence Glaive Suprise is meant to stun, and Galaxia seems to have given her best and failed.
Saturn was basicly beaten to death by Uranus and Neptune.

[Comartemis]

I don't recall Saturn using any attack more powerful then Silence Glaive if any. This means Saturn did not really attack because Silence Glaive Suprise is meant to stun, and Galaxia seems to have given her best and failed.

Silence Glaive Surprise is a stun attack in the manga. Anime version was an instant death technique; remember how Saturn-chan almost vaporized Nehelenia and her whole castle at the start of Stars?

Though I don't understand why the animators included dropping the glaive as part of the attack, unless they were trying to make SGS Saturn's "kill the world" technique.

Remember Zwzn, Saturn completely got the shaft in the anime; she showed up, what, four times? (not counting Hotaru's appearances in season 3 part 2) There is absolutely no way that Miss Takeuchi even scratched the surface of her capabilities, much less the anime's creators.

Saturn was basicly beaten to death by Uranus and Neptune.

And I wish she'd returned the favor, but she's too sweet and forgiving for that.

[Zwzn]

Silence Glaive Surprise is a stun attack in the manga. Anime version was an instant death technique; remember how Saturn-chan almost vaporized Nehelenia and her whole castle at the start of Stars?

Though I don't understand why the animators included dropping the glaive as part of the attack, unless they were trying to make SGS Saturn's "kill the world" technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eStHcIGE1k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIlq4RC-49g

http://thetour.animehunters.com/sinusamoris/article_016.html

In both clips it looks to me like Silence Glaive Suprise, and then swinging the glaive like that are two different attacks. The article explains my reasoning well enough.

Remember Zwzn, Saturn completely got the shaft in the anime; she showed up, what, four times? (not counting Hotaru's appearances in season 3 part 2) There is absolutely no way that Miss Takeuchi even scratched the surface of her capabilities, much less the anime's creators.

Remember Galaxia had to beat everyone, but Moon. They had Galalxia winning by act of plot rather then skill, and power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJcAzCpxZ8
Saturn forgot powers she had.
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto forgot how to fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF1R9fJLzn8&mode=related&search=
The inners don't even try to dodge.

And I wish she'd returned the favor, but she's too sweet and forgiving for that.

My mistake. Uranus and Neptune didn't beat them to death, but it looks like they would have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COHsy5sVrbQ

Pluto likely knew before hand what was going to happen. I stand by my theory that someone tampered with Saturn's mind at the begining of season 5. We know those of Crystal Tokyo will do that sort of thing for the "greater good".

It's kind of strange how Saturn's eyes are kind of blank as she disappears unlike Pluto's eyes

[camk4evr]

Everything other than Galaxia/Chaos in that quote was manga, I should've been more clear, sorry.

???
Actually, I was commenting on how I confused the anime with the manga. I wasn't commenting on your quote. I'm sorry if you thought I was.

[Seraphim]

???
Actually, I was commenting on how I confused the anime with the manga. I wasn't commenting on your quote. I'm sorry if you thought I was.

Ah. No I was just clarifying.

[Comartemis]

Pluto likely knew before hand what was going to happen. I stand by my theory that someone tampered with Saturn's mind at the begining of season 5. We know those of Crystal Tokyo will do that sort of thing for the "greater good".

Oh for christ's sake, not this again. Drop it and drop it fast, Zwzn, or this could get ugly.

I stumbled across this article about a week ago and I just now thought of posting it here; it's a excerpt from an essay called The Arts of Interpretation, and I thought it was relevant to the discussion as it stood a page or two ago. Boldface type indicates especially relevant stuff.

Bujold is right; there have been arguments going on for centuries upon centuries about what constitutes literature as an art form. Go read some of Aristophanes' plays, ripping on Euripides; they're really funny. Practically speaking, based on my last nine years of observation in academia, I would have to say that literature, as a category, boils down to stories that are complex enough to support multiple interpretations. After all, a story so simple that it really does only support one reading wouldn't hold anyone's attention for very long. What keeps a story in circulation is that people keep talking about what it means. I would define literature, then, as stories that can't be reduced to a single reading. This is, of course, slightly self-serving, since it lets me argue that my favorite anime shows are also literature and, therefore, something I am justified in spending professional time on as well as hobby time. Given this perspective it fails to surprise me that the most vigorous discussions I've found cover the most ambiguous material--after all, that's where it gets fun. What disturbs me is the unproductive either-or tenor to these debates.

Take, for instance, the question raised about Season Three of Sailor Moon: who is the true Messiah? What keeps this discussion going is the fact that we don't have very clear indications in any direction. Whenever the Outers talk about the true Messiah, as opposed to the Messiah of Silence, the drawing we see is of a fairly featureless rainbow colored woman with butterfly wings. The litmus test for Messiah-hood is the ability to utilize the Grail's power. On the one hand, Uranus has two visions of Usagi looking like the drawing of the true Messiah and whenever Usagi uses the Grail for her second tier transformation she briefly manifests butterfly wings. On the other hand, she doesn't have the strength to maintain this transformation for long which leads Uranus and Neptune to conclude that she isn't the true Messiah after all. The other candidate suggested for the role is Sailor Saturn. Hotaru is certainly the host of the Messiah of Silence, Mistress Nine. The image, in the visions that Michiru and Rei share, of a woman holding the Silence Glaive lead the Outers to conclude that Sailor Saturn herself is going to be the Messiah of Silence, but this expectation is derailed by Mistress Nine overwhelming Hotaru. There would certainly be a nice poetic balance in Saturn being the true Messiah--both Messiahs in one body, duking it out. Sailor Saturn herself is never in contact with the Grail, which makes it impossible to apply the same test to her as to Usagi. Saturn does, however, manage to save the world from the approaching Silence, embodied in Pharaoh Ninety, after evicting Mistress Nine. Again, a certain balance of power seems indicated by this; if Hotaru overwhelms the Messiah of Silence, perhaps she's a Messiah too. I'm inclined to think that Usagi/Sailor Moon is the true Messiah, based on Mistress Nine's statement that the Grail is a heart crystal always at the height of emotion (love, hate, determination, etc.). She's taunting Sailor Moon, who can't transform to Super Sailor Moon since the Grail has just been destroyed to open the path for Pharaoh Ninety, that without an equally powerfully charged heart crystal she'll never be able to defeat the approaching entity. Once Sailor Saturn evicts Mistress Nine and takes off to destroy Pharaoh Ninety along with herself, however, Sailor Moon is so desperate to transform that she manages it anyway, apparently by drawing on the power of the other senshi. By my reading, this implies that Sailor Moon's heart somehow reached the same peak as the Grail, allowing her to both transform and follow Sailor Saturn to rescue her. As I say, though, this reading is based on an implication, a snippet of symbolism that can be read (like any symbol) more than one way. It's highly suggestive, but not conclusive. This is an awareness that I find lacking in an unfortunate percentage of such debates.

A similar, if even more diffusive, debate is the one over the presence or absence of homosexuality in Gundam Wing.

<snip>

Given this I'm not at all surprised to see people both making arguments and writing fics that connect these characters sexually, nor am I surprised to see other people just as vociferously campaigning against sexual connections either in essays or in fics. What does disturb me is the unwillingness I see on both sides to allow for more than one possible answer. Personally, I'm all for fics going in whatever direction the author wants to take it, bless her or his inventive little psyche; no one's forcing anyone to read them, after all. More precision in AU and OOC labels would be nice, to be sure. The essays...well, I'd like to see a little more analytical sophistication in the essays on all sides.

What people really seem to be missing, while they argue about the little details, is the big picture. The most interesting point for analysis is not, in my not at all humble opinion, whether the true Messiah is Sailor Moon or Sailor Saturn, or whether Heero is going to (eventually) get together with Relena or Duo. The most interesting point is that the authors didn't arrange a clear answer one way or the other. Why not? That's the question I see all too many people ignoring. What value might the authors have seen, to their stories, in leaving those questions open? Maybe there isn't a true Messiah, and what does that say about the Outers' mission or about truth or Messiahs in general? If Heero has all these vague options open and kept deliberately up in the air, ranging from no one through Trowa, Relena, Duo, Zechs, whomever, what message does that convey about relationships and fifteen year old, socially inept boys in the middle of a war? Don't just settle for one answer, that's boring, look at the details of each possibility, put them all together, and see what shape they make. Inclusion, people.

Now if I could just find the page I found this on, I could cite my source properly...