Ranma - Senshi Assassin

[LawOhki]

Sailor Saturn's existence says otherwise a point I bring up in my fanfics. I mean who makes a Sailor Senshi whose only purpose if the anime and manga are any guide is to be a one shot living Death Star without "being an unfeeling lack of warmth bitch"?

Saturn's purpose is to reset things only after conditions have become so horrible that it's the better alternative. She's not a negative thing, but for her to be there means that shit has hit the fan.

And being that there is no mention of Serenity actually creating senshi and it's been directly stated that they are connected to their respective planets/stars and are activated at some point independantly, she could have had no part in any of their creations only the duties assigned. Inners protecting Usagi and such.

[Spica75]

Sailor Saturn's existence says otherwise a point I bring up in my fanfics. I mean who makes a Sailor Senshi whose only purpose if the anime and manga are any guide is to be a one shot living Death Star without "being an unfeeling lack of warmth bitch"?

Someone who feels that they must? And as Law said, you got it a bit wrong anyway.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

It still doesn't address why she needed to be sealed away. She only did her thing because it was her mission given by Serenity, not because it was in her nature to do that because nothing's stopping her. It's clear that she would have been just fine living with others normally simply by changing her mission.

[LawOhki]

It still doesn't address why she needed to be sealed away. She only did her thing because it was her mission given by Serenity, not because it was in her nature to do that because nothing's stopping her. It's clear that she would have been just fine living with others normally simply by changing her mission.

Her nature and powers have to do with death/rebirth, so she's ideally suited for the job. Whether or not she has some instinctive level knowledge of when she should use it or she's following Serenity's criteria is up to interpretation.

And her living a normal life would let her build attachments that could cause her to abuse her power for personal reasons. As well as letting enemies know of her existence and the possibility of abusing it like Galaxia could have done.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

Being suited for it doesn't mean she can't help herself, and she has alternative abilities and attacks on top of that to illustrate that she isn't a one-trick pony.

The interpretation isn't unclear. If she was going to do her thing when the time was right, why bother sealing her away with things that would unseal her when said time is right? That makes absolutely no sense. It's obvious that she acts on Serenity's criteria/direction, since she has no inclination to destroy the world while unsealed, depending on what her mission dictates. After all, her first known unsealing was after the Silver Millennium's fall and Beryl being sealed away, rather than as a means of taking Beryl down with them. It seems that Serenity had used her to kill the three outer senshi so that she could reincarnate them with the others, which is more like a janitorial job than that of a bringer of doom (which is what happens later, and is understandably opposed). And after being unsealed a third time, she acted as another member of the sailor senshi team under a new mission, rather than continuing what her appearance usually meant.

"Would allow" doesn't mean that she would. We didn't see Pluto using the Door of Time for her own personal gain after who knows how long of having access to it, have we? Still seems to be a loyal vassal of Serenity rather than being a ruler herself, or even just an antagonist.

Galaxia is a poor excuse. Might as well seal all of the sailor senshi away, then. No sailor senshi in the galaxy was safe from her, as evidenced by her nearly complete and utter dominance of the galaxy.

Plus, keeping Pluto a secret seemed rather successful up until the events that take place in the story, so there's no excuse for why Saturn couldn't have been kept a secret as well, instead of not even having what Pluto had. Sailor senshi aren't stuck in their uniforms, which would easily identify them as such, so hiding in plain sight could have been an option. The only excusable reasons for sealing her away, instead of giving her something to do (at the very least), are: one, she was out of control and would death-reborn if given the chance (which doesn't seem to be the case); and two, it was to allay the public's fear, whether politics were involved or not (which is possible but not supported by any evidence). The thing is, you can't expect to find a perfect solution for something like this, so I think there's no problem with Saturn being out and about with the other sailor senshi, if the nine-hundred years of Crystal Tokyo's existence (that we know of) is any indication to go by.

[Maximara]

Being suited for it doesn't mean she can't help herself, and she has alternative abilities and attacks on top of that to illustrate that she isn't a one-trick pony.

The interpretation isn't unclear. If she was going to do her thing when the time was right, why bother sealing her away with things that would unseal her when said time is right? That makes absolutely no sense. It's obvious that she acts on Serenity's criteria/direction, since she has no inclination to destroy the world while unsealed, depending on what her mission dictates. After all, her first known unsealing was after the Silver Millennium's fall and Beryl being sealed away, rather than as a means of taking Beryl down with them. It seems that Serenity had used her to kill the three outer senshi so that she could reincarnate them with the others, which is more like a janitorial job than that of a bringer of doom (which is what happens later, and is understandably opposed). And after being unsealed a third time, she acted as another member of the sailor senshi team under a new mission, rather than continuing what her appearance usually meant.

"Would allow" doesn't mean that she would. We didn't see Pluto using the Door of Time for her own personal gain after who knows how long of having access to it, have we? Still seems to be a loyal vassal of Serenity rather than being a ruler herself, or even just an antagonist.

Galaxia is a poor excuse. Might as well seal all of the sailor senshi away, then. No sailor senshi in the galaxy was safe from her, as evidenced by her nearly complete and utter dominance of the galaxy.

Plus, keeping Pluto a secret seemed rather successful up until the events that take place in the story, so there's no excuse for why Saturn couldn't have been kept a secret as well, instead of not even having what Pluto had. Sailor senshi aren't stuck in their uniforms, which would easily identify them as such, so hiding in plain sight could have been an option. The only excusable reasons for sealing her away, instead of giving her something to do (at the very least), are: one, she was out of control and would death-reborn if given the chance (which doesn't seem to be the case); and two, it was to allay the public's fear, whether politics were involved or not (which is possible but not supported by any evidence). The thing is, you can't expect to find a perfect solution for something like this, so I think there's no problem with Saturn being out and about with the other sailor senshi, if the nine-hundred years of Crystal Tokyo's existence (that we know of) is any indication to go by.

Well Pluto's gates are an basically an uncontrolled Eisenstein-Rosen bridge of the HG Wells meets Sliders so they seem to be a puzzle and from what I know of the manga and remember of the anime the Black Moon clan were somehow able to time travel without them or through them in spite of Pluto guarding the things.

IIRC we only seen Crystal Toyko once...during the Black Moon saga and we only see five Sailor Scouts there: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Pluto. So what happened to everybody else? As I have pointed out before in both the manga and anime the handling of Wiseman and the rebels is Kuno level stupid (it is worse in the manga)

[Crescent Pulsar S]

"Uncontrolled" doesn't sound like how the Door of Time works at all, at least as far as the manga is concerned. I don't ever recall it not being reliable in any way. While it's true that time travel can be accomplished in other ways, the Door of Time would still be of interest to those who have not managed time travel themselves.

The point I was making about Crystal Tokyo is that there was nothing seen or referenced that would contradict Saturn not being a problem if left unsealed. The only problems that come up during those nine centuries had nothing to do with Saturn.

[PCHeintz72]

"Uncontrolled" doesn't sound like how the Door of Time works at all, at least as far as the manga is concerned. I don't ever recall it not being reliable in any way. While it's true that time travel can be accomplished in other ways, the Door of Time would still be of interest to those who have not managed time travel themselves.

The point I was making about Crystal Tokyo is that there was nothing seen or referenced that would contradict Saturn not being a problem if left unsealed. The only problems that come up during those nine centuries had nothing to do with Saturn.

The gates of time are extremely dangerous unless you know how to navigate them...

Most Sailor Moon stories I encounter have fan fiction authors making it work like the Guardian of Forever from Star Trek (they may not call it that, but that is what they do). This is actually a large stone structure with a oblong opening in the front that allowed for viewing and scanning of any history asked for, and to jump through to where wanted if the jump is timed correctly. It is run by I what I guess you could call a sentient interactive AI, that was never made exactly clear, but it is close enough.

This is used by many to have Pluto able to use them like a TV to spy on and know *everything*. Which really is not how those gates work at all.

But equating the Time Gates to that is incorrect, they are not a viewing portal one merely jumps through, nor is there any interactions or dialog from it.

When using Sci Fi series references, closest is actually probably Time Tunnel, mixed with Voyagers. Time Tunnel actually had to be walked through, and even viewing stuff through them was tricky. Voyagers had no such viewer ability, but had tons of dimensions and times could end up in with the slightest misstep of the jump...

That last is important. The Time Gates as depicted in the Anime when they are sent forward had specific rules. Pluto warned them all not to deviate from the set path (and it was a long path, not any mere opening or simple corridor) or they could be lost forever in time and space. At no point is she actually shown viewing time using those gates.

That does not mean she cannot know future events, or other things that are chrono based, merely she is not shown using the gates to do them.


EDIT: as for threats... the biggest threat to Crystal Tokyo was actually Chibi Usa... she inadvertently caused all of it after all.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

Um... I never said anything that equated the Door of Time to being that way, and I specified that I was talking about the manga version since it and the anime version do differ. The manga's Door of Time is a direct means of travel from one time and/or place to another, and the other side of the open doorway can be seen. The mistake that a lot of people make, if we're strictly talking about viewing things with the Door of Time, is that it's a clandestine means of remote viewing, working much like the Deep Aqua Mirror. In reality, if one was being looked at through the Door of Time, they might (depending on where it's located) be able to see the person looking at them from an open doorway. It's very simple and direct. The anime version is not so simple and direct because of the possibility of human error during one's transit.

Chibi-Usa wasn't responsible for Death Phantom or the Dark Moon.

[PCHeintz72]

In regards to the Time Gates I meant in general not you in particular...

In regards to Chibi Usa I meant she was was responsible for the fact she took the future Crystal in the first place.

Did she cause the desires for the war itself, or the hatred of the dark moon clan... no.

[Crescent Pulsar S]

I thought it was in response to what I said since you quoted me despite posting directly after me. XD

How did taking the Ginzuishou cause all of the threats to Crystal Tokyo? For one, Neo-Queen Serenity has it in a display case instead of keeping it on her person like usual, like it's in a museum, and there's no guarantee that she would have gained access to it before she was hit by the surprise attack. For another, we later learn that she had lost her power as Sailor Moon and wasn't as strong as before, and Death Phantom had managed to destroy Crystal Tokyo several centuries back despite her having the Ginzuishou handy, so there's no guarantee that Chibi-Usa's taking of the Ginzuishou would have made a difference. Even if it had, all it really did was worsen a threat that already existed; she was never the threat herself, especially since she was under the direction of the main antagonist when she was turned into an antagonist herself. (Which also happened to her father... multiple times. <_<; )

[PCHeintz72]

Chibi Usa did not cause all those threats... I said that. I still believe that it would not have happened near the same way had Usagi had access to it as the battle unfolded.

It can easily be argued though that *all* the senshi had become weak over the centuries though, because their younger selves did what their elders could not.

It could also be argued that the younger selves are even more powerful than their moon Kingdom selves... after all they defeated all the threats that the moon kingdom sealed away.

That actually is the fact that makes the series so unbelievable to me... That an entire magic based kingdom, presumably fully trained, magically aware, and with every advantage, with guards and armies and whatnot, could not do what a few middle school girls with spotty memories could against enemies that in general had the tactical genius of turnips (at least, they were shown that way in the series itself).

[Crescent Pulsar S]

That's assuming that she could get the Ginzuishou in time. For all we know, Chibi-Usa would have merely taken the Ginzuishou later rather than sooner, if she hadn't so coincidentally taken it just prior to the surprise attack.

Their younger selves didn't accomplish what their elder selves could not, or even their past selves. With the exception of Saturn, none of the sailor senshi have ever been able to handle chaos in its various forms, and it's not unusual for them to be overcome by its minions (temporarily or otherwise). Also, we can't judge their past performance because we don't really know exactly how things unfolded, except that they -- Serenity, Endymion and the guardian sailor senshi -- probably encountered Metallia before Queen Serenity could act. (Neither do we know the exact size of either army, the Silver Millennium's population, as well as other details that would be required to properly assess their performance.) The reality of it is that Usagi is stronger than her mother, and has had the benefit of another Ginzuishou (used by her daughter) and the Kinzuishou (used by Endymion), rather than the other sailor senshi's performance becoming worse. After all, in the end, the one that's front and center of their victories is Usagi, with or without accompaniment or other aid. She's not one to fail (ultimately) when the weaker links in the chain can't manage.

[PCHeintz72]

But we still know that Beryl and army were sealed, not destroyed. We also know their tactical planning abilities, well, suck... Ditto Nehelania... and even the Black Moon Clan was not all that great tactics wise.

Considering they faired as badly as they did against a group of middle schoolers operating in the shadows without bothering to get government help and only two cats with fragmented memories as advisors, and one of their group which in the anime was in serious risk of not making it into high school (that is canon), is all one needs to know about their tactical planning abilities.

I submit any of those groups could have beat the senshi easy with different tactics. Though it would have made for a poor series indeed.

In any case, this has deviated quite a bit from the initial discussion of an assassin Ranma. I still am of the simple belief it is extremely naïve to believe any kingdom or monarchy could exist without a black ops or secret order of knights or some such. At the very least some group ferreting out information and secrets from the public, to uncover possible betrayals and public opinion. Serentiy having it completely makes sense.

This is despite the fact such a organization may well fly in the face of a gentle, loving, caring, open, free, etc. society.

Ideally, they would also be smart in way of tactics, even if no one else in the series is.

[Blackcat101]

But we still know that Beryl and army were sealed, not destroyed. We also know their tactical planning abilities, well, suck... Ditto Nehelania... and even the Black Moon Clan was not all that great tactics wise.

I am going by "Being sealed makes you insane" also it might be that Pluto manipulated the Senshi to be where a portal to the Dark Kingdom opened, that's why certain Senshi ended in England. So is not like not being in Japan would have changed things much. Also, the main problem of the Dark Kingdom is not bad tactics, is lack of teamwork. Since the Generals are constantly trying to back stab each other and Beryl is insane, that's why the girls never faced two generals at the same time.