(Ranma/FSN) The Stars of Shades

For submitting and talking about story ideas. Idea submissions must be at least five paragraphs long, and include plot points, summaries of which characters are involved, and, for fanfiction, how it differs from canon. Both original and fanfiction ideas welcome. Though original works should have more development. Replying posts must give actual commentary, no "GREAT IDEA" or "THIS SUCKS".

(Ranma/FSN) The Stars of Shades

Postby Frog » Wed May 24, 2006 1:37 am

I had mentioned that I was interested in writing a Ranma and Fate/Stay Night cross in the Uncommon Crossover thread. I've been giving it a bit more thought and decided to post my thoughts here and see if I could get some input from other people. Maybe corrections for F/SN mythos from any who happen to be more knowledgable with it than me. I'm kinda waiting for the anime to finish before I even consider writing this to see if I can get some more info on the characters, but I might just find myself waiting for the game translation as well since I've recently become pretty enthralled with the Heaven's Feel. Anyways, here are my thoughts: (more like an outline of the plot but whatever...)
Ranma saved Akane but died in the fight against Saffron. 30 years Later he's summoned by Caster before the beginning of the 5th Grail War to help her achieve her goals. Ranma, who lost his memory due to complications during the summoning, calls bullshit on Caster's explenation of the HolyGrailWar and runs away. He finds that the Nerima he knew has changed drastically and that his father and mother are dead. And, surprise surprise, so is he, just like Caster said. Having nowhere else to go he returns to the Temple where Caster is staying and demands to know what the hell is going on. Caster explains about the HGW and Ranma decides to help her so he too can get a wish from the Grail. Wish to regain his old life.
Ranma, being Ranma, would have a high Independent Action rank despite being a Servant of a Servant and of being an Assassin class. Thus Caster would employ him for spying rather than just guarding the Gates. With the hel of Kuzuki, Ranma's female form would be enrolled into Fuyuki High (Yeah, even being brought back from the dead he still can't ditch the curse). He pretends to be 15 and gets placed into the same class as Sakura Matou. The two become friends and he meets Shirou Emiya through her. Ranma becomes a quick fan of his food and visits nearly daily.
Note: Both of Ranma's forms are technically Assassin and thus are far stronger than he ever was while alive. He has a high rank in Conceal Presence as well and thus can remain undetected from Rin Tohsaka and Sakura who should be able to tell that he's actually a Servant. Both of his forms can summon the Assassin Servant garb. It looks mostly like his old chinese outfit but in blue, a bit more menacing, and with metallic bracers.
Ranma's male Assassin form saves Sakura from being assaulted by rapists.
Ranma, female, is attacked by Bazette and Lancer who sensed something amiss about her. She had temporarily dropped her Conceal Presence for some reason or other. Summons her Servant Garb and is holding her own pretty well until Caster interrupts. She doesn't want to risk her 'partner' early in the War. Bazette and Lancer decide to retreat for now, but thank Ranma for the good fight before they leave. Caster warns Ranma that now almost all Servants have been summoned and only Saber and Archer are missing.
Few days later Archer is summoned and Ranma, hidden, is watching the fight between Archer and Lancer at school. He sees them disengage and wonders whats up. He follows Lancer only to arrive in time to see him stab Shirou through the heart. Horrified Ranma doesn't even have time to try and save him. Lancer retreats and before Ranma can follow him Rin arrives and res' Shirou. Ranma, bewildered, follows Shirou home. Changes into female and decides to drop in to check on him.
Shirou is fine and Ranma decides to leave. Decides to go back in case Lancer returns and arrives just in time to see Lancer beating Shirou towards the shed. Ranma jumps in and saves Shirou (pretending to be human, not giving away class or servant status). Lancer is surprised a human can keep up with him. Shirou gets into the shed and Saber is summoned. Saber saves the both of them.
Rin arrives with Archer and Saber wounds him before Shirou can stop her. Rin decides to take Shirou to Kotomine so he can have the HGW explained to him. Says Ranma isn't welcome but Shirou insists. Rin relents and they all go to the Church.
Leaving they're ambushed by Ilya and Berserker. Ranma, who was warned not to blow her cover, can only watch as Saber and Shirou are wounded. Right as Ranma is about to say 'To hell with this' and jump in, Ilya decides to retreat.
Ranma helps Rin to carry Shirou and Saber home. Ranma is surprised by Shirou's amazing healing abilities, as is Rin. Ranma leaves and meets Sakura along the way, who is distraught.
Sakura begs Ranma to go home with her after school, Ranma agrees. Sakura reveals that she is actually the Master of Rider and that she was forced to give control of her Servant to Shinji. She seems ready to reveal something else but her grandfather Zouken arrives and says it's time for her treatment. Ranma is forced to leave. He imagines that this treatment must be quite effective because he never imagined that Sakura was ever ill.
Ranma arrives at the Temple where he is staying and discovers that Caster has actually been draining the life out of the monks there and of people all over the city to gain mana and grow stronger. Ranma is angry but Caster beats him into submission and explains that this is the only way that a team of Caster and Assassin are going to gain enough strength to actually win. Ranma reluctantly and bitterly agrees. His desire for a wish is stronger than morals. He only asks that she not kill anyone and Caster agrees.
Note: Ranma spars with Kuzuki and picks up some of his assassination techniques? Ranma is friends with Issei Ryudo as well, son of the temples owner who is also a friend of Shirou. They first met when Ranma was recently summoned, thus male 'That was actually my brother. He left on a training trip.'
Ranma keeps tabs on Rin, Shirou and Saber in his female form. He notices Shirou's first encounter with Rider and remarks that Shinji is using Sakura's servant in a cowardly way.
That night Saber attacks the temple and Ranma male stands at the gates to stop her. As Saber is about to unleash her NP the battle is interrupted and Shirou arrives to take Saber away. 'You shouldn't let girls fight your fights for you, Shirou.' 'How does he know my name?'
Missing people start showing up in the news and Ranma angrily asks Caster if she had anything to do with that. She denies it and is insulted that he would think she would break her promise. Ranma's not listening and leaves angrily to do his daily recon.
At School, Ranma gets weird vibes from the place and doesn't go in. Keeps Sakura from going in as well. The Blood Fort Andromeda is activated and they both witness the fight between Shinji+Rider vs Shirou+Saber. Ranma becomes angry at Shinji's cowardly tactics but Sakura begs her not to go after her brother. Ranma reluctantly agrees but rationalizes that no such promise was made by his male half. Ranma male Assassin attacks Shinji+Rider after the school fiasco but Rider once again uses her NP to escape and Ranma is wounded graavely in the fight because of the power of Riders NP. Crawls to Matou house where Sakura recognizes him as the man who saved her before and takes him into to care for his wounds.
Next morning he wakes up to find Rider by his bedside. She was ordered by Sakura to watch over him while he recovered. She's surprised that he survived her attack, but holds no resentment towards him since Sakura explained that he had saved her before. Rider explains that what she did she did because of Shinjis orders. However, Shinji failed and is being punished by Zouken. Sakura is once again her Master. Ranma is glad it is Sakura, but worries about having to fight her and Rider in the HGW.
Here's were things get tricky. Both Rider and Shinji survived the fight that they were supposed to have died at and Sakura is being heavily experimented upon by Zouken, as is hinted at by the 'missing' people. Shinji, to console himself of his lose, would try to rape Sakura again but she'd resist and kill him like in HF. Sakura gives into her darker side but still puts up a nice facade for Ranma, who returns to Caster and is berated for his rash actions.
Sakura interrupts the fight between Archer and Berserker. Shadow eats Berserker while Archer, who recognizes the Shadow, grabs Ilya and runs like a bat out of hell. Rin and the others learn from Archer that Berserker was defeated by a dark shadow. They dont heed his warnings and decide with Rider (in their mind) and Berserker defeated their next choice should be to take down Caster and Assassin, who they know are located at Ryudo temple, before tracking down Lancer. Caster kidnaps Taiga (or Ilya?)
Attack Ryudo temple cave where Caster has created a magical terrain resembling Ancient Greece, Ranma lets Shirou and Rin pass but wants to finish his fight with Saber. Saber notices that he's gravely wounded and incapacitates him, saying that they'll finish their fight when he's recovered. Shirou fights Kuzuki. Caster faces off against Rin and a wounded Archer. Caster, who has stockpiled a lot of Mana, has the upper hand. She asks Saber to become her Servant instead of that strong willed Assassin.
Gilgamesh interrupts and NP's Caster who tries to protect Kuzuki. Ranma jumps in and starts punching and kicking the raining NP's away from Caster. Caster dies saying that she never imagined him to actually be so loyal. Her wish had already been granted with Kuzuki and she hopes that his wish would also be granted. Caster and Kuzuki die. Gilgamesh is about to leave when Zouken, Black Berserker, Rider, and the Shadow arrive.
Gilgamesh is swallowed by the Shadow, Shirou keeps the Shadow from swallowing Saber and loses his arm, Saber fights Black Berserker, Archer protects Rin from Rider. Zouken raises True Assasin from wounded Ranma's body. Male form dies to give True Assassin flesh and Female form is left behind. Shadow becomes Sakura who is surprised to see that her savior and friend were one and the same Assassin. Caster's temple begins to crumble. Sakura orders Rider to help the others escape while sadly watching the beaten forms of her two best friends, Shirou and Ranma. She leaves with Zouken, Black Berserker, and True Assassin. They take Ilya as well.
Archer dies, gives Shirou his arm.
----
OK. I've only thought up this far. Still need to figure out how to wrap this up. It follows the anime pretty closely at times but with divergences here and there before taking a big spin towards HF at the end. I wanted to have Black Saber as well, but then I'd prolly be stacking Sakura's deck a bit too high. Dunno. I like Saber.
Thoughts?
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Postby Bjorn » Wed May 24, 2006 5:29 pm

Don't have the time to comment on this as much as I'd like; perhaps later. For now I'll just talk Ranma.
For now: Does Ranma have a Noble Phantasm? Or are his ki techniques counted as such? Do they use mana or ki, now that he's technically not human?
I remember that Kojiro (the Assassin in F/SN) didn't have an NP, but his Tsubame Gaeshi technique was pretty much the same as one. It was also a lot different from the real Kojiro's historical technique, being a dimension-warping cut that couldn't be avoided. Perhaps you could do something similar with Ranma's techniques?
Assassin was also an improper servant iirc, unable to move off the Ryudo temple grounds as he wished. He was also a lot weaker than an Assassin would normally be. This was because he was the servant of a servant... are you planning to do anything about that?
The most glaring fault that I can see would be that Ranma moving about freely, meeting people here and there would be a big no, considering the whole improper servant bit. Unless you're going to do something about that?
More later. But it looks promising, even though I never really liked Caster. :P
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Postby Frog » Wed May 24, 2006 11:19 pm

Does Ranma have a Noble Phantasm? Or are his ki techniques counted as such? Do they use mana or ki, now that he's technically not human?
I remember that Kojiro (the Assassin in F/SN) didn't have an NP, but his Tsubame Gaeshi technique was pretty much the same as one. It was also a lot different from the real Kojiro's historical technique, being a dimension-warping cut that couldn't be avoided. Perhaps you could do something similar with Ranma's techniques?

I'm tempted to have either the Ice Staff or the Saotome Family Blade, which would actually be a semi-famous (fictional) sword, become NP's for Ranma. However, I'm thinking that an NP might not even be necessary as he could very well have his techniques listed as Skills just like Kojiro's Tsubame Gaeshi. They wouldn't be as flashy as NP's but they would get the job done.
Since he's technically not alive anymore I doubt he'd be able to use ki per say. He'd prolly use minimal mana per skill, again like Kojiro. Also, he'd probably feel this difference, that he's not using ki anymore. I suppose Caster would be able to explain: 'How do you expect to use this mystical life force of yours if you're no longer alive?' 'Oh'. I don't know if they'd be changed into the reality warping fashion like Tsubame Gaeshi though. His techniques are already pretty amazing as they are.
Assassin was also an improper servant iirc, unable to move off the Ryudo temple grounds as he wished. He was also a lot weaker than an Assassin would normally be. This was because he was the servant of a servant... are you planning to do anything about that?

The reason why he can move beyond the Temple Gates at will is because Ranma was summoned with the skill Independent Action with a high rank, probably an A. Why did he get such a skill? Because he's Ranma. An untamble horse who cannot be shackled. I think that being wild and independent is such a big part of Ranma being Ranma (in this case it would also be part of his 'legend') that it has to shine through in some fashion or another. Ranma also has a high rank in Conceal Presence because of the Umisenken. As for the rest of his Stats they'd be subpar, just like Kojiro Assassin. However, he makes up for it in skills.
Quick thought given to Servant Sheet for Ranma would be something like:
Stats -
Strength: C
Endurance: C
Agility: A+
Mana: E
Luck: E
Noble Phantasm: -
Skills -
Independent Action - A
Eye of the Mind (fake) - A
Conceal Presence - A
Battle Continuation - A
SKILL -
Kachuu Tenshin Amaguriken - Imperial Chestnut Fist (?)
Type: Anti-Personnel
Maximum Target: 1
A speed punching technique that legends say has cowed even the might of an ancient Chinese Emperor.
Etc etc. Can see that his stats are pretty mediocre when compared to other Servants but he makes up for it in skills. Also, another reason why he can move independently from Caster is because it seems that he has a Mana battery of sorts that is fueling his movements. He is subconciously feeding Mana from the Curse into himself to fuel his movements and attacks. Since it's a curse, however, it will not be broken so easily. Thus he has a semi-unlimited Mana supply... that is until his male half is blown up. Then the timer starts ticking for Assassin.
More later. But it looks promising, even though I never really liked Caster.

Personally, I like Caster. She's going to die, yes, but she'll still play a pretty integral part early on and, hopefully, Ranma will warm up to her. I can certainly see Caster taking a liking to Ranma's 'cute' female form, despite his uncanny ability to always say the wrong thing.
Upon second though, I might have to use Black Saber afterall. Reading it over again it seems to me that while I succesfully managed to keep Sakura's deck from being stacked too high, I gave the good guys too much of an advantage. Why? Because I totally forgot to consider Kotomine and Lancer. Hm... Need to put more thought into those final parts. It's kinda tough though since my HF knowledge is a bit lacking.
Move, make way, truth is coming through
The era of justice will come
There are songs of hope too
I would happily sacrifice my life for this world.
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Postby Dark Magic » Wed May 24, 2006 11:27 pm

Yeah I don't really know much of Fate/Stay Night but it sounds interesting. The only really problem I see is that I don't think Ranma would just give into to caster so he could get his wish, he would probably just try to do it by himself. And just keep trying till he suceeded.
Last edited by Dark Magic on Wed May 24, 2006 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DCG » Wed May 24, 2006 11:28 pm

You do know not all the servernts are dead right?
Saber gets pulled from a time when she is alive. Some of the others to. Getting killed as a servernt just sends them back.
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Postby Frog » Wed May 24, 2006 11:33 pm

That's a point that I'm somewhat uncertain about. Personally, I can see Ranma willingly cooperating with Caster very easily once he finds out that everything he knew and cherished is gone. His family is dead, his friends have all moved on, and he's been dead for 30 years even if he has no memory of actually having died. Then Caster explains to him the HGW and offers to share her wish with him if they work together. Seeing as he has lost everything else and his general gullibility I can see him willingly helping Caster.
That is until the point where he finds out that she's draining the life out of people. That would be when their relationship would begin to get steadily rockier until the point where Ranma accuses her of being responsible for the mysterious 'disappearances'.
Another thing is that Caster would effectively be Ranma's Master since she was the one who summoned him. I'm uncertain on this point, but I believe that Caster would also have the three command spells that come to all Masters. She could literally force Ranma to obey and there's nothing he could do about it.
You do know not all the servernts are dead right?
Saber gets pulled from a time when she is alive. Some of the others to. Getting killed as a servernt just sends them back.

If the question is directed at me then, yes, I do realize that all Servants are actually dead. I believe I mentioned that Ranma died several times before. All Servants are summoned from the Throne of Heroes and to that's where they return once the War is over. No clue what the Throne of Heroes is actually like, but in F/SN doujins it's depicted like a Valhalla or Elysium for Heroes.
Saber is a special case. She made her pact with the Throne of Heroes while still alive. So when she is summoned her information is taken from her last moments, and when she is defeted that is where her information returns to. She never made it into the Throne of Heroes.
Ranma 'saw' the Throne of Heroes while he was dying. When he died he made his pact. So he would be a full-fledged Servant, unlike Saber.
Move, make way, truth is coming through
The era of justice will come
There are songs of hope too
I would happily sacrifice my life for this world.
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Postby Bjorn » Wed May 24, 2006 11:43 pm

Mana Rank is E, but it's semi-unlimited? I don't quite get that one...
If Ranma is summoned as a "legend", then would some of his more famous character traits be exaggerated? As we all know, Ranma hasn't got the best reputation, and much of the things he was probably "famous" for weren't true - including the womanizing, perverted jackass bit. Well, perhaps the jackass part was right, but the others...
His techniques are flashy, granted, but they're really not much compared to other servants' Noble Phantasms. Earth-shattering offensive Phantasms like Excalibur and Enuma Elish aside, even things like True Assassin's Zabaniya or Lancer's Gae Bolg would far outclass anything he could dish out in terms of deadliness. Especially given the other servants' defensive capabilities - I doubt Ranma could deal any damage at all to Berserker, for instance.
Wouldn't he need an Independant Action rank of A+ to move completely freely, like Gilgamesh? If I recall correctly, A rank still had limits.
I dunno, it's been a long time since I played F/SN, and I haven't watched the anime so everything's a bit murky.
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Postby Frog » Thu May 25, 2006 12:03 am

Mana Rank is E, but it's semi-unlimited? I don't quite get that one...

I made those stats up in like 5 seconds. I realize now that it sounds a bit silly =X Basically, he's subconciously feeding mana from the curse into his limited mana pool and this gives him a much bigger playing field than what he should rightfully have. Sneaky super convenient loophole. However, once one half is eliminated the gig is up and his timer starts ticking as it should have from the moment he was summoned. Unless we have the ever so convenient mana transfer. *cough cough*
If Ranma is summoned as a "legend", then would some of his more famous character traits be exaggerated? As we all know, Ranma hasn't got the best reputation, and much of the things he was probably "famous" for weren't true - including the womanizing, perverted jackass bit. Well, perhaps the jackass part was right, but the others...

Once a person is dead we begin to see them in a different light. 30 years have passed since Ranma passed away and his legend is small and little known. Perhaps maybe even only known around martial arts circles and the like. How did his friends remember him and what did they say about him? Hm... that's interesting food for though. I'll have to meditate on that a bit. 'The Dead can do no wrong', right? I'm thinking Ranma's stories would embellish his noble moments and tack on the slapstick moments as a humanizing joke.
His techniques are flashy, granted, but they're really not much compared to other servants' Noble Phantasms. Earth-shattering offensive Phantasms like Excalibur and Enuma Elish aside, even things like True Assassin's Zabaniya or Lancer's Gae Bolg would far outclass anything he could dish out in terms of deadliness. Especially given the other servants' defensive capabilities - I doubt Ranma could deal any damage at all to Berserker, for instance.

What you say is true, but the same also holds for Kojiro Assassin's Tsubame Gaeshi. His skill is nothing when you compare it to the NP's of the likes of Saber, Lancer, and Rider. However, he easily matched swords with Saber and his TG was quite deadly. Ranma has a bigger repertoire than Kojiro's. I imagine he can hold his own against most everybody except for Berserker (which is exactly the reason why I'm not having him face off against Berserker).
Then again, I could always give him an NP weapon and even the playing field, but it was my intention to have Ranma come in as an underdog of sorts. Outgunned, yes, but still able to surprise others through sheer skill etc etc.
I dunno, it's been a long time since I played F/SN, and I haven't watched the anime so everything's a bit murky.

Haven't played the game myself. Just read the summaries at Moonlit World, watched the anime, read a lot of discussions, and read a hell of a lout of doujins. I'm thinking I might wait until the game translation is completed before I even attempt to write this. Would be a good way to get more knowledge of mechanics, etc etc.
Wouldn't he need an Independant Action rank of A+ to move completely freely, like Gilgamesh? If I recall correctly, A rank still had limits.

Quoting the Moonlit World, from Archer's profile:
Independent Action: B
Ability to move about on its own even after the mana supply is cut off from the master. At rank B, it is possible to remain in the world for 2 days.
With B, Archer was able to fight without Rin for an extended period of time against Berserker. He could also remain in alive for 2 days if Rin would happen to be killed. Gilgamesh had an A+, described as ability to move without Master (which Archer also pulled off with a B). I decided to take the middle ground and give Ranma an A with the added benefit of his nifty little loop hole for mana conservation.
Move, make way, truth is coming through
The era of justice will come
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I would happily sacrifice my life for this world.
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Postby Bjorn » Thu May 25, 2006 1:57 am

J-J-Jam it in!!
Another question I had is, how exactly are you going to have the Assassin/True Assassin thing work? Your explanation was kind of murky. Do you mean that the Hasashin [sic] True Assassin persona arises from Ranma's male form (which is obliterated) but his female form remains as an Assassin (and presumably, remains as Ranma)?
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Postby Adyen » Thu May 25, 2006 9:15 am

It's a rather interesting idea... A few points, though.
First of all, I see that you're trying to mix the storylines. Even if you are, I suggest that Gilgamesh NOT be caught, simply because of the fact that he's a freaking overpowered Servent that Saber happens to be able to JUST defeat him with her full list of skills, and that Shiro is practically his opposite. (And it REALLY stacks the deck in Sakura's favor with Gilgamesh under her control)
Secondly, I can't see a good ending to the scenario that you've painted. With Shiro using Archer's arm, I can see that you're setting up for the HF ending - but you're basing this story around Ranma. So, how would it end?
You're better off using the UBW ending as a base instead, IMO. You could always add elements of HF into it, but Ultimate Blade Works is certainly easier to adapt than Heaven's Feel. UBW also features more of Caster, so it's easier to pin-point where they were and what they were doing at certain times.
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Postby Frog » Thu May 25, 2006 5:44 pm

J-J-Jam it in!!

I wonder how Ranma would react to Mana transfer. 'You want me to WHAT in your WHAT?!' and/or 'You want to WHAT in my WHAT?!' followed by swift violence.
Another question I had is, how exactly are you going to have the Assassin/True Assassin thing work? Your explanation was kind of murky. Do you mean that the Hasashin [sic] True Assassin persona arises from Ranma's male form (which is obliterated) but his female form remains as an Assassin (and presumably, remains as Ranma)?

You got it. When I started playing with the idea of adding HF to the story I realized I'd need True Assassin and Zouken. However, that would mean no more Ranma. So, the idea of Ranma female form being left behind came to my mind. I'm playing with the assumption that Jusenkyo curses are nigh unbreakable 'magic' (need to review the definitions of magic, sorcery, and miracles according to Type-Moon, blech) so even after having his chest split upon by True Assassin, the curse would still find a way to exert it's influence. So, to put it bluntly, Ranma would survive, just barely, in his female form and still be Assassin, even if we have True Assassin running around.
First of all, I see that you're trying to mix the storylines. Even if you are, I suggest that Gilgamesh NOT be caught, simply because of the fact that he's a freaking overpowered Servent that Saber happens to be able to JUST defeat him with her full list of skills, and that Shiro is practically his opposite. (And it REALLY stacks the deck in Sakura's favor with Gilgamesh under her control)

The funny thing is that even when Gilgamesh was taken by the Shadow we never got to see Dark Gilgamesh and all that happened is that Sakura got an UBERHUGE boost in mana and power. I actually found a doujin that deals with Gilgamesh's fate within the Shadow and I intend to use elements from that to explain why Dark Gilgamesh doesn't appear even after being eaten.
Also, I'm beginning to think that Sakura doesn't have as much influence as she should. Sure, she has Black Berserker, but he's a pushover since being regurgitated as a shadow weakens and blinds him due to his high Divinity. Might have to end up giving her Black Saber afterall...
Secondly, I can't see a good ending to the scenario that you've painted. With Shiro using Archer's arm, I can see that you're setting up for the HF ending - but you're basing this story around Ranma. So, how would it end?

I can't really give away everything before I write it, now can I? :P Seeing as one of my pet peeves is 'everybody gets a happy ending' you can safely assume that not everybody will have a happy ending. However, it should be, in my opinion, a satisfactory and more plausible resolution than 'everybody survives and lives happily ever after giving each other mana transfers yay'.
You're better off using the UBW ending as a base instead, IMO. You could always add elements of HF into it, but Ultimate Blade Works is certainly easier to adapt than Heaven's Feel. UBW also features more of Caster, so it's easier to pin-point where they were and what they were doing at certain times.

UBW is my favorite scenario by far and the one I had in mind when I first started playing with the idea of a crossover. However, I couldn't see it working because UBW is so strongly dependent on the relation and conflict between Archer and Shirou, that Ranma would be shifted to a side and promptly forgotten. I just couldn't think of a way to make him become important to the story of UBW. Maybe I just didn't think hard enough?
Whatever the scenario, Caster's fate is pretty much sealed. I like her, yes, but her odds of survival are always minimal at best. Guess I'll just have fun writing her while she's around and then be a sad little fan when she has to move on.
Move, make way, truth is coming through
The era of justice will come
There are songs of hope too
I would happily sacrifice my life for this world.
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Postby Adyen » Thu May 25, 2006 6:43 pm

Hmmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Gilgamesh is also heavy on the Divinity attribute as he was a half-blood deity or something...
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Postby Knight of L-sama » Thu May 25, 2006 6:55 pm

For starters Ranma doesn't need to die at Jusendo for him to become a heroic spirit.
In case you missed it Archer is Shirou. It's quite possible for a person to still be alive when a future version of themselves is summoned to participate in the Grail War.
Also your inclusion of Bazzete as Lancer's Master seems rather odd as she only crops up in Hollow/Atraxia having been killed before the story kicks off in the three main storylines.
With Ranma replacing Koujiro as Assasin makes his/her ability to move around so freely highly puzzling. Koujiro was pinned down to the temple becuase being summoned by another Servant severely limited his mana supply and all his other abilities.
Also Caster having to explain the Grail War to Ranma also seems a bit off, especially since even Archer knew what it was in Fate, even with the rest of his memory scrambled. I was operating under the impression (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the whole deal was explained to them when they were chosen by the Throne of Heroes and became Heroic Spirits.
Finally Ranma saving Sakura from rapists seems a little reduntant considering she's been molested by Shinji and Zouken for years before hand.
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Postby Frog » Thu May 25, 2006 10:16 pm

Hmmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Gilgamesh is also heavy on the Divinity attribute as he was a half-blood deity or something...

Gilgamesh's Divinity is listed as B (A+). Berserkers Divinity is listed as A. Following reason, if Gilgamesh were spewed out as Dark Gilgamesh he'd also be severely crippled by changing from Divine to Dark. Think that's the reason why he never showed up in Heaven's Feel and was only used as a reason to explain Sakura's suddenly enormous mana pool and power. I intend to keep that. Also, this doujin might give you a good idea as to what I intend to make Gil's fate once the Shadow takes him in.
For starters Ranma doesn't need to die at Jusendo for him to become a heroic spirit.
In case you missed it Archer is Shirou. It's quite possible for a person to still be alive when a future version of themselves is summoned to participate in the Grail War.

Didn't miss it, in fact I think I've mentioned before that I do know that Archer and Shirou are one and the same. I realize that I could do the same for Ranma, and have a future version of him be summoned into the past, but I don't want that. I wan't Ranma to be dead and displaced and with nothing familiar left to him.
Also your inclusion of Bazzete as Lancer's Master seems rather odd as she only crops up in Hollow/Atraxia having been killed before the story kicks off in the three main storylines.

My time line is crude, but you'll notice that I mention Bazette being Lancer's master before the War really gets underway. Bazette does not escape her fate, in fact she meets it shortly after her brief fight with Ranma. Ranma is none too pleased when he (she at that moment) finds out what happened to the weird gaijin woman who gave him a good fight.
With Ranma replacing Koujiro as Assasin makes his/her ability to move around so freely highly puzzling. Koujiro was pinned down to the temple becuase being summoned by another Servant severely limited his mana supply and all his other abilities.

Ranma is Ranma is Ranma. I've already explained my reasoning behind this and why I want to write it like that. I intend Ranma to replace Kojiro but I dont intend him to be a carbon copy of Kojiro. I really doubt Ranma would have Vitrification (whatever that means) and Heart of Harmony among his Skills. He gets others skills which allow him to do the things he does.
Let's face it: If Ranma were stuck only guarding the gates and interacting only with Issei, Caster, and Kuzuki it'd be one hell of a boring fic. So I came up with, in my opinion, a good excuse to have him move out from the Temple. Is that really so hard to imagine?
Also Caster having to explain the Grail War to Ranma also seems a bit off, especially since even Archer knew what it was in Fate, even with the rest of his memory scrambled. I was operating under the impression (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the whole deal was explained to them when they were chosen by the Throne of Heroes and became Heroic Spirits.

Now THIS is a good point. I'd forgotten about that detail. The deal is explained to them when they make their pact and when they're sent out, they're sent out with knowledge of their situation and their own past (but not of any previous Grail Wars they might have participated in). Even if Ranma did lose memory of his past then he'd quite likely probably retain memory of his pact... unless Caster also blew up her own summoning in a matter dissimilar to that of Rin's own. Hmm... I need to give a plausible reason some more thought.
Finally Ranma saving Sakura from rapists seems a little reduntant considering she's been molested by Shinji and Zouken for years before hand.

It's in character for Ranma. Sakura is an attractive girl. Just because she has a hell of a life at home, doesn't mean that that hell couldn't possibly also search for her outside the walls of the Matou household. And even if she's gotten used to the ministrations of her 'family' it doesn't mean she'd willingly take them from strangers. I can perfectly see her running away, resisting, and being a nervous wreck until a gallant knight swoops in to save her.
Or an Assassin in this case.
Move, make way, truth is coming through
The era of justice will come
There are songs of hope too
I would happily sacrifice my life for this world.
Frog
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Postby Knight of L-sama » Thu May 25, 2006 11:55 pm

Frog wrote:
Also your inclusion of Bazzete as Lancer's Master seems rather odd as she only crops up in Hollow/Atraxia having been killed before the story kicks off in the three main storylines.

My time line is crude, but you'll notice that I mention Bazette being Lancer's master before the War really gets underway. Bazette does not escape her fate, in fact she meets it shortly after her brief fight with Ranma. Ranma is none too pleased when he (she at that moment) finds out what happened to the weird gaijin woman who gave him a good fight.

Ah. Didn't catch that the first time around. I need to recheck my info on Hollow/Atraxia but I thought Bazette died right after she summoned Lancer though.
With Ranma replacing Koujiro as Assasin makes his/her ability to move around so freely highly puzzling. Koujiro was pinned down to the temple becuase being summoned by another Servant severely limited his mana supply and all his other abilities.

Ranma is Ranma is Ranma. I've already explained my reasoning behind this and why I want to write it like that. I intend Ranma to replace Kojiro but I dont intend him to be a carbon copy of Kojiro. I really doubt Ranma would have Vitrification (whatever that means) and Heart of Harmony among his Skills. He gets others skills which allow him to do the things he does.
Let's face it: If Ranma were stuck only guarding the gates and interacting only with Issei, Caster, and Kuzuki it'd be one hell of a boring fic. So I came up with, in my opinion, a good excuse to have him move out from the Temple. Is that really so hard to imagine?

Yes but I thought it was partly due to the mechanics of being summoned by another Servant that pinned Assasin down. Because Caster couldn't feed him all the mana he needed he had to stay at the temple so he could tap into the resevoir that Caster discovered beneath it otherwise bye-bye Assasin.
Finally Ranma saving Sakura from rapists seems a little reduntant considering she's been molested by Shinji and Zouken for years before hand.

It's in character for Ranma. Sakura is an attractive girl. Just because she has a hell of a life at home, doesn't mean that that hell couldn't possibly also search for her outside the walls of the Matou household. And even if she's gotten used to the ministrations of her 'family' it doesn't mean she'd willingly take them from strangers. I can perfectly see her running away, resisting, and being a nervous wreck until a gallant knight swoops in to save her.
Or an Assassin in this case.

Actually what I was referring to was having the character who has already been raped on multiple occasions attacked by a different group of rapists seems to play into some very nasty sterotypes about rape victims. Why not have Ranma save her from a runaway car or something along those lines. After all those years of abuse having Sakura's self-preservation instincts short out is well within the realms of plausability.
If your spirit has wings to travel, even across the breadth of a thousand, million nights, imagination will guide the way and the gates of El-Hazard will always be open to you.
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