Speculation on why Ranma allows people to abuse him

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Postby antimatterenergy » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:25 am

First off lets make sure we're using the same definition for justifiable. The definition I'm using is something (such as a fact or circumstance) that shows an action to be reasonable or necessary.
Since Akane did it (repeatedly), it is justifiable to do it in retailiation. In my opinion it is no different then if you punched me. It would be justifiable for me to punch you back. Justifiable does not mean that it is the right thing to do though. Anyway's I was moreso trying to dispute your saying Ranma flaunts his superiority over others generally. In the manga at least Ranma generally doesn't flaunt his superiority. He more often the not down plays his skills, such as during his meeting with the tendos and when meeting new people or just acts normal (for him) not trying to show he's superior in any way. I only mentioned the super soba becuase you brought it up and that was an instance when he was flaunting his superiority but he had a valid reason to (she did it and it pissed me off how does she like it reason) and that on pretty much every ocasion that he did flaunt his superiority he had a reason to and he didn't do it for very long.
Yes Akane does have a right to be pissed off whenever Ranma goes on a date with anyone besides her. Her actions about Ranma dating others are justifiable (right maybe maybe not depends on the circumstance and degree she goes to at the time, justifiable yes), except she can't really say anything about it without being hypocritical since she was the one who dated others first and she has pushed him into dates with others (panda ghost and kodachi).
Ryoga commited several injustices to Ranma, This in my opinion can easily make it justifiable to commit an injustice in return. In this particular case it is a circumstance i.e. dating my fiancee that made it justifiable. Anyways I'm not condoning Ranma's actions I'm just saying that in comparision it is not such a big thing.
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Re:

Postby Nekomata-sensei » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:32 am

Amarielah wrote:So then, by your very definition, Akane has a right to do what she does when RANMA goes on a date with somebody else (which he does quite frequently)? Once again, the fact that Ryouga committed an 'injustice' first does not justify the fact that Ranma commits an 'injustice' in retaliation (and in this case it's even debatable if Ranma is doing it with any retaliation in mind). This time, Ranma was in the wrong.

Wrong, this is ignoring many circumstances. First of all, Ryoga, knowing that Akane is engaged to Ranma, and Akane, knowing she is engaged to Ranma, should not be dating. Ranma, however, has conflicting engagments, not of his own fault (Kiss of Marrige was given _in Japan_ protecting Akane, Ranma had no responsibility to know what his actions would have caused until after the fact (Kiss of Death was different, but mostly the Jusenkyo guide's fault for not warning the Saotomes about Amazon laws that obvioulsy applied)). The only excuses Akane would have for attacking Ranma for dating Tatewaki Kuno on various occasions to trick something out of him, and the date competition between the White Rose and the Black Rose, all other situations I can remember were with legitimate fiancees or under some form of extreme manipulation (such as when Ranma went on a date with Hikaru Gosunkugi during the paper doll arc... when they were both boys...).
Ranma's actions against Ryoga were completely justified, he was protecting the honor of both Akane and Akari, whom Ryoga was taking advantage of, when any sort of challenge would have been innefective, as Akane would have simply ordered Ranma away or it would have caused a fight at Ryoga's house which would have damaged the property, and Ranma considers Ryoga in a more positive light than Ryoga deserves, and wouldn't have wanted that to happen.
Akane lacks justification because, not only are all of Ranma's dating situations justified (where Ryoga and Akane's aren't) but Akane doesn't even bother to find out what's really going on most of the time. Ranma, on the other hand, takes stock of a situation before acting, even though people rarely bother to tell him anything.
Ranma's injustice towards Ryoga is justified because it was the only workable solution Ranma could come up with to the problem. Ranma, of course, could have chalenged Ryoga to battle for the slight to Akane's honor and his own, and Ryoga, upon spotting Ranma, likely would have gone berserk in his own house, damaging it. Under the circumstances, Ryoga's stupidity made other actions bad ideas. Also, the role Ranma took as Ryoga's little sister, was in my opinion, if you ignore lack of blood ties, almost true, Ranma _does_ treat Ryoga much like a rival, missed sibling, or something along those lines, despite Ryoga's despicable actions. Ranma even protects Ryoga's secrets above Akane's honor! If you look at things closely, you'd probably realize that Ryoga, in some ways, treats Ranma much better than Ranma's parents do, despite openly trying to kill him and behaving dishonorably towards Akane about his curse.
While two wrongs don't make a right, and the end doesn't allways justify the means, and it's often the means that makes the difference between a good person and a bad person with good intentions, I'd say, even in the case of the Ryoga's sister incident, Ranma was behaving as a good person. Partially because he wasn't doing something that would change Ryoga's opinion of him if found out. Ryoga allready sees Ranma as decietful, manipulative, cheating, tricky, ect. If Ranma had been considered a highly kind and honest person by Ryoga, it would have not been a good thing to do, because it would be betraying Ryoga's trust in him.
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Postby Drawde » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:24 pm

During the super soba incident, Ranma's ego really showed. He was incapable of admitting that Akane was stronger than him at first. He refused to stop trying to beat Akane at arm wrestling, despite the fact that everyone else knew he couldn't win. He kept trying LONG past the point of stupidity. The way Ranma acted at the end of the arc, it looked like he gave Akane the antidote to the soba specifically so he could be stronger than she was again.
Ranma has a huge ego, and he's usually willing to use it.
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Postby Pale Wolf » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:35 pm

During the super soba incident, Ranma's ego really showed. He was incapable of admitting that Akane was stronger than him at first. He refused to stop trying to beat Akane at arm wrestling, despite the fact that everyone else knew he couldn't win. He kept trying LONG past the point of stupidity. The way Ranma acted at the end of the arc, it looked like he gave Akane the antidote to the soba specifically so he could be stronger than she was again.

Considering how bitchy Akane acted in that arc, as if her chemically-boosted strength said something about her innate qualities, can you blame him?
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Postby Metroidvania » Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:51 pm

Considering how bitchy Akane acted in that arc, as if her chemically-boosted strength said something about her innate qualities, can you blame him?

True, she not only thought it was "about time" and that the "Heaven must have heard her prayer", and she refused the antidote, even when Ranma offered it to her, because she wanted to stay the strongest.....
She also didn't seem to care about her strength at all...
She hit Ranma towards Shampoo, then tried to go all-out on a kick when Shampoo glomped Ranma after picking him up.....the fact that it could have really hurt Ranma apparently didn't matter...
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Postby Pale Wolf » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:26 pm

She would hit normal human beings with the same force she uses on Ranma. And thus we would have some blood pulp flying to Hokkaido.
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Postby Metroidvania » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:09 pm

Pale Wolf wrote:She would hit normal human beings with the same force she uses on Ranma. And thus we would have some blood pulp flying to Hokkaido.

Yes, but it's not likely for her to hit most people....that was kind of Ranma's "duty" as a fiancée to take the hits.....
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Postby Rockman_Zero » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:54 pm

In the beginning I used to like Ranma. Time was I honestly found it funny.
But after several volumes of Reading the male cast get treated like absolute garbage by the female (and some of the supporting male) cast, it began to lose it's glamour on me.
I mean... Most of the 'humour' came out of some form of unfairness or another.
Why Ranma puts up with this crap? Honour? Some malformed sense of chivalry? Sheesh, at times he gets almost as bad as Fred Gallagher's Piro... It's like watching a toad boil to death in a pot of water without realising it.
Or maybe he's too much of a coward to do something about the abuse directly, takes it like a man, and hopes it'll stop eventually.
Well, that's my two yen.
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Postby Matrias » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:47 am

The only real answer is number 1: It's slap stick comedy. It need not be justifed any other way.
If you really want to look at it at a serious anger, I'll say this: Ranma lets himself be abused because he's an abuser himself. Physical retributions are commong when his pride his slighted, and he'll resort to violence against his father, rivals (Kuno, Mousse, Ryoga, etc), Happosai, whatever. Years of living with Genma has ingrained this into him as a natural form of retribution.
If a female slights him, like Akane for instance, he'll retort with verbal abuse. He believes hitting girls is wrong, though he will fight back on some level.
He takes the retribution he recieves in return, because on some level he feels guilty. Since physical violence his response on those who slight him, he feels it is a natural punishment to recieve when he messes up.
I'd never use that in a fic, though. I'll stick with number one, thanks.
Why Ranma puts up with this crap? Honour? Some malformed sense of chivalry? Sheesh, at times he gets almost as bad as Fred Gallagher's Piro... It's like watching a toad boil to death in a pot of water without realising it.

The difference between Ranma and Piro is that Ranma is an egomaniac who lets his pride drive every move he makes. He needs a smack to the head to even him out.
He's no saint, you know.
As for Ranma, this is initially because Rumiko Takahashi wanted to depict him more as normal young man, and gradually shifted him to being more arrogant and prideful.
Even Genma seemed okay (actually showing concern for his son) in the begining as well, and moved to the point where he became just a lazy bastard.
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Postby Acey » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:53 am

Matrias wrote:The only real answer is number 1: It's slap stick comedy. It need not be justifed any other way...I'd never use that in a fic, though. I'll stick with number one, thanks.

Doing that's is perfectly fine if that's what you prefer, but I think consummately labelling the series as 'just slapstick' severely limits potential reader investment in the characters and also character analysis and study by those same fans. After all, isn't that why we come to these forums? ^^
Ranma is an egomaniac who lets his pride drive every move he makes. He needs a smack to the head to even him out.

Actually, a verbal remonstration can be just as if not more effective assuming it doesn't fall into the pre-conditioned brackets of Ranma's day-to-day life (Kuno: "Foul cretin, Saotome!" Ryoga: "You cad, Ranma!" Akane: "You jerk/pervert, Ranma!" Genma: "You ungrateful son, Ranma!"). These tend to illicit reflexive reactions from Ranma, such as throwing either a generic insult back, or just a punch.
But when someone like Kasumi tells him he needs to apologise to Akane (regardless of who was in the wrong), Tofu explains that he'd realise she (Akane) is a nice girl if he would give her a chance, Nabiki guilts him because he's hiding from Nodoka, or even Ukyo's restrained yet nonetheless incensed reaction to Konatsu, Akane and his well intentioned but bumbling attempts to run her shop while she's sick, Ranma is far more admonished and affected than he could ever be by being hit.
He's no saint, you know.

And thank heck for that! Had the canon Ranma resembled the victimised, uber-honorable Ranma that populates far too many fics for my liking, I would never have been able to read through the entire manga.
Even Genma seemed okay (actually showing concern for his son) in the begining as well, and moved to the point where he became just a lazy bastard.

Even as the manga draws to a close, IMO Genma always has Ranma's (and admittedly his own) best interests in mind. Sure, he can be a lazy bastard, but he can also be a concerned father. They're not mutually exclusive, you know? ~^
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Postby Matrias » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:05 pm

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Postby Rei-chan » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:30 pm

Wow, so I am not the only one of the opinion that Genma is actually somewhat looking out for Ranma.
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Postby Matrias » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:37 pm

Rei-chan wrote:Wow, so I am not the only one of the opinion that Genma is actually somewhat looking out for Ranma.

I think any man willing to dress in drag to draw his son out of nekophobia induced insanity deserves some bonus points.
I like to give Genma the benifet of the doubt most of the time, but I'm kind of annoyed at how he became the "Genma doing something lazy or sleezy!" gag more and more often towards the end of the series.
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Postby Rei-chan » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:46 pm

Well I believe that Rumiko was just running out of things for his character to do. I mean they drop Tofu like a hot potato after the moxibustion I believe it was. For that matter judging by the way the series started I would think Kasumi was intended for a bigger role that just never got used.
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Postby Seed00 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:32 am

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